How Long Should a Woman Wait For a Ring?

0 Posted by - April 21, 2009 - Dear NWSO, Relationships, Love & Marriage

groom-cold-feet

Dear NWSO,

I’m currently in a seven-year relationship with the father of my two kids. We have lived under the same roof for the last five years; we have a 4-year-old daughter and a 3-month old son. My issue is why hasn’t this man asked me to marry him yet? When I ask what the deal is, his only response is “what’s the rush?” I know you’re probably thinking I must be taking care of this man financially, but that is not the case. He has actually put me through nursing school and he has no problem paying his share of the bills. He’s a really good father and provider but I don’t understand what the hold up is. Do you think that women set themselves up for failure the second they have sex with a man before marriage? Do you think that no man is going to settle down with a woman that has done everything a wife would do without the commitment? Thanks for taking the time to read this; I would love to hear your thoughts and what your readers think as well.

Dear Patient Patty,

To answer your first question, I don’t think women set themselves up for failure by having sex with a man before marriage. If that were the case then a lot of women would never get married. It’s 2009, there are plenty of brides that have done the do with their boo before saying I do. Everyone has his or her own take on sex before marriage. Myself for instance, I’d probably try to do the born again virgin thing with my future fiancée and hold off on sex for a few months before the wedding so the actual honeymoon night will be more special. Not to knock any traditionalist or old school thinkers, but the whole no sex before marriage thing just isn’t for me. God forbid we’re not sexually compatible and now we’re stuck together for the rest of our lives. Although sex isn’t the foundation of a good marriage it is an important part, and I think we all fear being in a sexless relationship.

Now as for your second question about men not settling down with women that play the role of a wife with no commitment, I say that you can’t make a blanket statement for every man regarding marriage (or anything really) because we’re all different individuals. For some the answer may be yes, but for others it will be no. In regards to your situation, though, the only question you should be concerned with is this: Are you happy with this man? If yes, then focus on that and continue to be happy. If the answer is no, then you have to reevaluate some things. For instance, if he did propose to you would you really want to spend the rest of your life with someone that doesn’t make you happy? My point is this: a ring or wedding won’t magically make a bad relationship better. So would you prefer being unwed and happy or married and miserable?

As for why your man hasn’t popped the question, there could be a myriad of reasons. Fear of commitment—we’re all guilty of that at some point. He could just be happy the way things are and sees no real rush to change things up. Sure, you can argue that y’all are doing everything a husband and wife do already so what’s the big deal about making it official? You’re probably right about that, but men traditionally aren’t raised with weddings being the end all, be all of a relationship the same way women are. Girls grow up playing house, while boys play war. Maybe marriage isn’t important to him. Were his parents married or divorce? Has he seen marriages fail? How many of your friends are married? How old are y’all? Have you spoken to him about any of these possible relationship roadblocks and seen where his head is at regarding the whole institution of marriage? Everyone has there own baggage, fears and timeframe when it comes to marriage. You may have always aspired to be hitched by a certain age, while he’s probably like the average man and wedding bells happen when they happen. Go beyond just asking him about when he’s going to marry you, and delve into how he feels/views marriage.

Based on your description, it sounds like you have a good man and y’all appear to have a good thing going. The last thing you want to do is become a nag. Call me stubborn but I don’t respond well to nagging. I like to feel like I made the decision and someone didn’t box me into one—especially something as important and long-term as marriage. Think about it: do you want a man to submit or commit to you? There’s a very big difference. Now that doesn’t mean you should wait around forever for a wedding that’ll never come, but if y’all are truly happy in your space I say focus on that and hopefully he’ll reach the point where he’s ready to take you down the aisle. But ring or not, the moment you feel as if you’re no longer happy or the non-proposal is a serious issue for you then it may just be time for y’all to part. Good luck.

Patient Patty also wanted to hear from you guys/gals, so what do you think of her situation? Is her man just stringing her along? Do you think he’ll ever pop the question or he’s just too comfortable with the way things are? Should she give him an ultimatum? Should she flip the script and propose to him? What’s more important, your current happiness or the lifelong commitment of a ring? How long would you wait for someone to propose?

Speak your piece…

woman_proposing_man

  • da ThRONe

    She should wait as long as it take. I have aways felt the act of marriage is overrated. If they together and everything is fine whats the problem?

  • AmandaHustlerwitapen

    I think this situation really depends on the person. For instance my father and his girlfriend have been together for more than nine years and my father has no plans of marrying her. But she doesn’t seem to have a problem with that, but again that’s her. Me personally I couldn’t see myself staying with someone that long without a sound commitment.

    I think that at the end of the day you have to evaluate yourself and the situation that you are in. And if you honestly can see yourself staying without a problem then marriage should not matter.

  • dime_diva_dee26

    You gave her the right advice. U really can’t force ppl to do nething n life, so u gota do u for u! If being married is so important, then y not do what’s important 2 U? Then again if its just a piece of paper then who needs it? That’s the thing bout “now days” traditions, morals, and self love seem to have faded.

  • Righteous Mama

    “Go beyond just asking him about when he’s going to marry you, and delve into how he feels/views marriage.”

    EXCELLENT advice!

    Pop the question to him? Uh, no.

    Give him an ultimatum? Def no!

    Wait it out! Not so sure about that either.

    I feel you NWSO on the whole if you’re happy don’t force the issue point but if marriage is important to this woman I think she needs to express that and not settle.

    Goodness, there are children involved too which really makes it super complicated. If marriage is what a woman wants, it’s best not to have children until a man pops the question. I think sometimes women think well I’m pregnant so he’ll marry me. Before you know it, the kids are 5 and 7 and you still don’t have a ring.

    If I were her, I’d probably just go with the flow. But I’d also make sure I had my own personal finances in order. If it doesn’t work out, she should be prepared for that. But I’d find ways to let him know that I was thinking the future of the family and talk about decisions we should be making together like saving money for college and a home. See what his reaction is to that.

    I did that and when I realized my “partner” and I didn’t want the same things, that he was totally absorbed in himself, I walked. But then again, we weren’t exactly happy with the relationship as it was anyway so walking was the common sense thing to do.

    But yes, I think he probably is stringing her along. If he loves her and doesn’t want to lose her, when she expresses how important this is to her, hopefully he’ll give her what she wants and deserves. That’s a tough one right there!

    NWSO, do you think some men don’t pop the question because a woman hasn’t proven she has certain “characteristics” of a wife? I’ve heard men say that in conversations before. Maybe he thinks she’s not ready? I mean if a woman is still hanging out in the club wit her girls that might not look to good. Nah mean?

  • da ThRONe

    I will agree if you have created this whole life with a person meaning the kids and cohabiting why not just get married your already there everywhere but the title. But I guess some people fear ruining a good thing by getting married I guess. I have heard some horror stories about people changing after the wedding. Some dudes need to understand that most females fear being left like most guys fear them changing.

    This is the product from a lack of communication! You should make your plans know as soon as possible. You need to let a dude know you wanna be married the minute you think you have the one. If he agrees and then drags you along then you know its all on him and you can bounce before the kids and too much time gets invested.

    I dont remember any rules that says a female cant purpose. If its that important to her and hes dragging his feet why the hell not?

  • EmotionalFunk

    Nah she not getting married at least not to this guy. If he wanted to marry you then he would have. Also thats super gravy he put you through nursing school but how else could he make sure you can provide for your kids.
    I say this you really only got two real options: one, shut up and don’t bring up marriage again and just stay pleasant and raise your kids in a stable two parent home or two complain and get left and support your kids on your own. Don’t have another kid with this dude either ’cause that not gonna get ‘em. Hell, your cutting your own veins here. That’s all you really got

  • Elle

    Tough cookie. But I think you gave her the right advice.

    Personally though, that’s a scenario I wouldn’t allow to happen. I want to get married. Period. And unless my last name changed, I stay on birth control. I was raised by a single mom and as great of a job she did I do not want to set myself up like that. Yes, marriages fail and I could still become a single mom one day. Yet and still, I at least want to try to do it “the right way” – in hopes of it actually being right.

    What’s the rush? After 7 years?!?!?! Seriously? If a man said something like that to me I’d feel mocked. I’m sorry. And once I feel mocked, I’m out. Again, I’m taking it away from the case at hand because there are kids involved.

    But generally speaking, I do not want to spend my life with someone who is commitment phobic. Therefore, if somebody proclaims never to want to get married, that person is not for me. It doesn’t take a whole day to recognize sunshine. So if after 2 years he doesn’t think he’d want to grow old and wrinkly with me, I will refuse to waste my time with him. I will never again live under the same roof with a man, cook his meals, do his laundry, be there for him in times of need, share my all with him for him to be able to just up and bounce when he sees fit without any kind of legal consequences. Because let’s face it, there are legal differences between shacking up and marriage. This may sound bitter to you and I guess to an extend I am when this topic is concerned. So yea, no marriage, no Elle.

    I’m too old to play house.

  • da ThRONe

    1 more comment before I call it a night. When has comfront and/or complacency become a “bad” word? What is wrong with being happy with what you have even if to other people it might not seem like much. Correct me if Im wrong but isnt that the point of being successful to acheive happiness? If your happy with things the way they are why tamper with them just to fit into a box other people think you should be in? Its the people who are never satisfied that are never satisfied! Thank about it. Marriage doesnt guarantee he wont just up and bounce it happen all the time. Marriage only make the break ups more complex. Trust me I have seen so many women here say “Im not going do wifey type stuff without a commitment” but whats the point when he can still leave away. So ok your husband leaves you how is that better than your boyfriend of 7years leaving you? Does it hurt your feeling any less if ya’ll are married when he decides to? If ya’ll have a house in both your name your both responsible married or not. The only thing that you might get married as opposed to not being married is alimony and im sure most couples make around the same amount so you might not get that.

    So ladies what is it about marriage that gives you this false sense of confidence that once the paper is signed its forever? And that being divorced is some how better than being broken up?

    I end up saying this everytime we talk about this issue. There are no guarantee period the only thing you can do is be the best S.O. you can be everyday and put in your half of the relationship.

  • July

    Maybe I am naive but I believe when a man wants to marry you and be with you it will not take 7years for him to figure that out, not to be a pessimist but if marriage is what she wants I reckon its never gonna happen unless she twists his arm and in that case it will not be a marriage based on the right foundation so its either she fully accept the situation as it is or face the next couple more years hes gonna take to ‘decide’ unhappy and nagging the hell out of him. I feel as women going into a relationship once it looks like its going somewhere we need to sit down with our partners and see whether we have the same desires, dreams and goals as our S.O’s. Better to deal with these issues before so we know what we are getting ourselves into and make appropriate decisions instead of going into panic mode after the fact.

  • Just-a-black-girl!

    I got a call last week from an old time school friend..we’ve been friends since we were 5. Anyhoo she announces to me that she is engaged…I was a little confused by this. The reason is because she has been in a relationship for 16 years…yes 16!! They have two children together and the oldest is going to be 12!!!

    I can kind of see what happened with the two of them…they moved in together when they were in their teens. They have their first child a few years later. Neither one of them considered marrige, neither one of them considered leaving the relationship either. Years later they have their second child…they are nearing 10 yrs of being together…now they are at the stage where their friends are settling down and getting married. They are nearing 15 years together and the pressure is on and it has been for the last 5-8 years, so they say what the heck…we aint going nowhere so we might as well do it!!!

    The thing that I had a giggle about later is the fact that the engagement is going to be something like 3 years…*insert shocked face* I mean why wait a further 3 years…but I guess 3 years makes no difference when they’ve been together for over 16…

    Each to their own I guess

  • distinguishedgentlewoman

    @ NWSO:

    I agree 100% with your advice.

    No one should be forced or nagged into marriage. If and when they wed is a decision that both parties should decide on together.

  • irish_mami8

    Patty should read Steve Harvey’s book. There’s a whole chapter about that. And I agree with him. Why would a man think he has to marry you when you haven’t required it before. I’m not saying that you have to force him to do anything, but you may have to decide between being with him and not being married or moving on so you can find someone willing to marry you. You have to decide how important marriage is. Would you rather your children live in the same house as their father, even if he won’t give you a ring? You have to decide what you want and how badly you want it. Nothing’s perfect, so sometimes you have to compromise. I’m not saying give up on the idea of marriage, but the compromise may be giving up on the idea of being married to him. It’s not forcing a man’s hand to tell him that he has to choose between being unmarried and having you. He still gets to make that choice. But you don’t have to sacrifice yourself and your needs. Stand up for yourself, girl. Women won’t get anywhere by lowering their standards of what’s acceptable. In a relationship, both people must sometimes give things up for the greater good. I’m sure you’ve given him a lot. Maybe it’s time for him to suck it up and man up.

  • wanza…a gal from Kenya

    Patient Patty,

    If you asked me, l would rather he married you.But given the circumstances, don’t push him.If he is a good Father and provider, why the rush.This is a man who has said he loves you in more ways than one…the nursing school for example.

    If this is so important to you, discuss it with him in a setting where he doesn’t feel like he has his back to the wall.Let him know what you want and why without you setting any ultimatums.If anyone feels safe,they open themselves to other ideas.But if you set ultimatums,this good provider and father will run the opposite direction.

    Gal,you have my best wishes on this one.

    Wanza

  • Elle

    @da Throne .. good morning suga. I hope u slept well :-) *waves*

    The ring on my finger does not really give me a sense of security. A man can still leave me any day he pleases … unless I keep him locked up in the basement … j/k.

    A marriage is a different ballgame in the eyes of the law, at least where I live. Should one of us end up in the hospital, the other person won’t get any kind of info unless we are married. Should I have children with a man I am not married to, he has no control over what happens with them in case I die. If he dies and his family never liked me, they get all of his property for me to potentially end up having to move out of a joined home or pay them their half. You get the idea.

    I’m not building up a life with a man that can easily be taken away from me – willingly or by accident. That’s reason one.

    Reason two, which to me is the more important one, is the fact that I feel as though a man who asks me to marry him is in it for the long haul and not just a good time. Nobody can predict what the future may bring. But at least he loves me enough to picture his life with me in it. He loves me enough to find the courage to get on his knee and pop the probably hardest question out there to me.

    I don’t know if this makes sense to anyone but me.

  • amelda

    My knee-jerk reaction to this is “he don’t wanna marry her.” But a woman in my office just got married after 9 years of dating. Some good friends of my parents got married after about 13 years of dating. Sometimes it just takes awhile. I hope the scenario works out in her favor.

    Patty’s allowed herself to get into a sticky situation and while i do agree that she deserves happiness, I think the kids take precedence on this one. I wouldn’t break up the home because I now want something that I clearly didn’t in the beginning.

    Good advice on suggesting she probe the reasons he doesn’t want to marry. That’s a good place to start.

  • Simoneis2good4u

    @ Elle – you pretty much summed it up. Da Throne posed the question of the difference between being married and not – I believe that if a man wants me to be his wife, he is asking me to be there with him for the long haul – you know, through thick and thin. That he loves me and respects me a lot.
    Personally – I am afraid of marriage to an extent where I do not want to make the wrong choice in my mate. I have been asked by two people in the past, maybe 3 and my answer was “no”. I didn’t think that they were the ones for me for the long haul. I don’t want a divorce and I don’t want to end up hating my husband. I have to be sure.
    @ Patty – When I lived with the father of my children had he asked me within those first 6-7 yrs I would of said yes. The last year when my eyes were open, I said “Hell No”. You have to make sure that you are not marrying him just because he is the father of your children – if so, you may never be happy. Make sure that your eyes are open and if there are any BS around pay attention to it. Make sure that you love him and are willing to be there for him through that thick or thin. If he were bedridden, are you willing to take care of him and still be true to your vows, even if it means he’ll be like that for the rest of his life – MAKE SURE. Then like NWSO said – sit down and talk to that man and find out his views on marraige. It’s going to put him on the hot seat and men don’t like that, but ask because you need to know. You need to know how he feels for you and how he sees you his eyes. Then you and only you will have to determine if marriage will come around or if you are being led on a string.

  • Miss G

    You say that if the relationship is good, she should just sit back and be happy rather than married and miserable. Why assume a chance of misery if they got hitched?? That was irresponsible of you. Nowhere in her letter did she indicate she was unhappy with the overall relationship; if anything, it sounds like things are going well in every way, but one: his reluctance to commit. Men being afraid of marriage and playing war when they were kids has nothing to do with his current responsibility. He HAS children with her. They live together. Oh yeah, and he’s not a boy anymore!! He should quit playing war, grow up and legitimize the realtionship by law.
    What men don’t realize is that women have commitment fears of a different sort: being good and faithful to a man who may very well pick up and leave. Do we stay good and faithful when another man would do better- even with kids involved? Cuz they do exist. Men are afraid of marriage, why? Because they’ll only be with one woman for the rest of their lives (forget adulterers for now) and women are afraid, especially in this society, that they’ll never be enough. His reluctance is hurting their relationship in that she wonders if he wants her. So is that constant torture being good to her? I doubt anyone with a conscience would say that he’s right in this situation.

    My advice: tell him your thoughts and feelings in a reasonable way. Not emotional or nagging, but in a calm, factual, reasonable way. Many relationships fail or are made stronger with a partner pushing for more. Hopefully, he sees how immature it is to be live his life by his fears and gets it together. If not, he maybe-just maybe- not be ready to commit because he doesn’t want to be “tied down” by one woman just yet. You decide what’s best for you: settle for his needs- as you’ve done for 7 frikkin years- or move on. Give it real thought and time and judge for yourself what’s best for you.

    Women always sacrifice their needs for men and the stupid issues, Ans. What you all don’t realize is women have them too. Any woman waiting more than 5 yrs for marriage, esp when kids are involved, will become unhappy and resentful towards the man she once loved. The relationship will end beacuse of that. And that won’t be her fault. It’ll be his.

  • DivineDCdiva

    I would have to agree with you and she shouldn’t nag him on the subject and delve deeper 2 see whats really going on. Along with that she needs 2 examin her feelings is the ring that imporatant to her has she told him how imporatant marriage and commitment are to her? Personally i wouldn’t wait indefinately for the ring if its that important to you but i also wouldn’t be to quick to throw “a good man” back out there n the general population.

  • D

    I agree with Miss G. Things may be going well in their relationship but obviously she’s not 100% percent happy with where they are because she would have never wrote the letter. There is nothing wrong with her wanting a ring from this man and despite what people say there is a huge difference and importance in marriage. Yes someone can walk away the same as they could in a relationship but the significance of making the commitment to spend the rest of your life with someone no matter what is a very serious step and in some way proves unconditional love for that person and that you truly believe they are your other half. I think marriage is a concept some take too lightly and some don’t take serious enough.

    As for Patty, I do agree that this is a conversation you should present to him if you haven’t already. This is obviously something that you want or have a concern about and the lines of communication need to be open. A closed mouth doesn’t get fed, and he is never going to know how you’re feeling if you don’t tell him.

  • Tee

    This one is really complicated since they live together and have children and they’ve invested significant time and money in this relationship.

    However, as my father told me when I was living with someone — why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?

    The thing is, we teach people how to treat us. And if as women we allow ourselves to be 15 years, five kids and one apartment down the road with someone without being married to that person — then we have taught them that we are fine with the way things are.
    When in fact, we aren’t.

    Marriage is not the solution to every relationship and in no way leads to happily ever after. There is no such thing. Some relationships prepare you and teach you how to think, act, behave and love in another relationship that may be better for you. People come into our lives for a season, a reason or a lifetime.

    Nagging is never the answer. Neither is giving in and being resentful later. And waiting until he comes around, is not going to work either. They both need to communicate their thoughts about marriage and what the bond means or doesn’t mean to them. Honestly, many of us don’t have our parents as marital examples, so we end up having issues.

    As one friend of mine told me, I don’t want to marry her because she may not be the “one.” Mind you, he has 5 kids with this woman and they live together. Maybe she wouldn’t have had 5 kids, with him if she knew that he didn’t consider her to be the one.

    When you have children, you show your children (if when you don’t realize it) how to treat the opposite sex. So when our sons and daughters see us having 12 kids with a person (or different people) we send the message that THIS IS OKAY BECAUSE MOMMY AND DADDY DID IT. We silently say that marriage is not important. That commitment is valued.

    This woman has to decide what is most important to her. Is it holding on to her happy, loving family as is–even if this is the one thing that her man hasn’t provided? Or is it walking away? i.e. rolling the dice and finding someone whose stance on marriage is iffy too.

  • da ThRONe

    @All Ladies

    Please stop making references to Steve Harvey’s book he does not speak for real men period!

    @Elle(morning sweetie)

    You can lock me in your basement any day! ;) LOL

    Where I live you can be entitled to most/all of those things without getting married. We have common law marriages meaning if you live together long enough you have all the rights of a wife(didnt know if you knew)? But that does make a lot more sense in your case. But even without common law theres joint accounts ,both persons can have there name on a property ,and he can make you his benefactor! So marriage is mostly about tradition in the states.

    My questions is if shes happy whats the problem? Too many times we wanna fix things that isnt broke and we end up messing up a good thing. If hes a good man ,father ,and provider what more can you ask for? I hate to come off as rude ,but damn shes being greedy. I understand there’s a difference in in philosophy but you know how many people just want that stabilty in there lifes? I dont know about anybody else I would kill to have a girl who gives me everything I needed and Im looking forward to getting or was looking forward anyways.

  • VirgoVida

    This happens way too much! First of all, Patty-Cakes should’ve discussed this dude’s view on marriage early on in the relationship, point blank period. You can fall in love with anybody, that doesn’t mean that you’re supposed to stick a pole in the ground, make a hut, and have kids in it! lol. It’s not that simple.
    He may have some issues with marriage, she should check and find out. But IMO, if he doesn’t have any issues, something in the back of his mind is telling him that she is not wife material.
    My bff was with a guy for about 7 years. They lived in her mother’s house for about 3 years. Then moved out and got their own place for about a year or two. Then wound up back at her mother’s house. Through all of this, they had 2 children. He eventually found out that she cheated off and on, didn’t know how to handle her money, and lied whenever she felt like it. They’re not together now, but did she change after 7 years, or did he just deny that she wasn’t marriage material because he was in love and she was the mother of his children?
    People usually aren’t happy, they’re in denial about their mates! Too caught up in having someone, to see that they are not “the one”.
    Why should I commit to taking care of you, and your kids, and the household, when you won’t commit to me?
    Elle kept it real… I’m too old to play house!

  • LadyPac

    I am not buying the fear of commitment exuse, sorry. He is scared of a piece of paper, however much it means to her, yet he WASN’T SCARED OF COMMITMENT WHEN HE GOT HER PREGNANT?! Oh please, is there really bigger a commitment than having a child? He was cool with that – twice. He wasn’t fearful enough to wear a condom? I know, I know, accidents happen every now and then. Let’s just say that it’s highly unlikely when both parties involved do their part.
    Bottom line is, if he isn’t commitment-phobic enough to have two children with the same woman and stay with her for seven years, he might wanna just accept – without over-analyzing it and trying to find some “reasonable” explanation as to WHY – that it’s important to her. I believe that getting engaged and setting an approximate wedding date, however far it is in time from now, would make her feel more relaxed, and therefore easier for her to just “be happy.”

    (Sorry about any typo. I’m on my phone.)

  • http://melhopkins.info Mel

    @da throne – thank you for SH comment …

    My comment to this woman:

    As soon as you trust yourself, you will know how to live. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

  • da ThRONe

    @Ladies

    How much of her wanting to get married is based on her lack of happiness verus how much of it is based on an idea that she most be married? No where in her comment did I get the idea that she dislikes him out side of the matrimony thing or lack there off. She said and I quote ” My issue is why hasn’t this man asked me to marry him yet?” If this is her only issue then yes she need to let that shit go. Under some state laws 5 years is enough for common law most states I believe its 7 years.

    I hate to say it sometimes you need to settle to be happy. We just have these cliche idea that arent alway whats best for us “Never settle” or “Dont become complacent” why the hell not? I have a cliche that should be used more often “Ignorance is bliss” I dont know bout ya’ll but I like bliss! Sometimes I would much rather be ignorant and happy as opposed to enlighten and miserable yeah i said it! LOL

  • http://www.somethinglikebeautiful.wordpress.com Something Like Beautiful

    Sigh.

    She is not wrong for wanting marriage. Now, I question her timing but I don’t think she’s wrong for wanting to get married.

    I agree completely with LadyPac. He is already committed. He has two kids, a household, bills, and responsibilities. Now he should step up and make sure the family that he created would be provided for in the event of either his or her demise.

  • **M**

    He just maybe comfortable in his situation and thats probably why he hasnt popped the question yet. As far as a woman proposing to a man I would think that she is pressed or even if so he may get itimadated and back off. I have a family member whos in a similar situation where they only been involved with the other person for a lil while not long though maybe 2 years give or take and she asked him to marry her because she wanted to be hitched before a certain age and now hes trying to get out of the situation because he feels as though hes been married already and not ready to do it again. I dont know I cant speak for males but I can speak on what I ve seen.
    So my advice is just wait and see never press the issue because then it will never get accomplished and if it did it wouldnt be the best thing.

  • da ThRONe

    @Mel

    Im sorry I dont know whats “SH Comment” means

  • Ameretta

    @NWSO

    nice advice..

    I agree with you flip the script ask him to marry. If this is what you really want.

    But what is the difference??? Other than the state reconignizes that you are a married, that you are one…….you still get common law advantages.

    It sounds like he is comfortable, and he must already feel like a married man. In his mind “If it ain’t broke, why fix it?” He may not find anything wrong with your arrangement.

  • da ThRONe

    For the record I think people should force the issue but it comes down to timing. You make your case early as not to find yourself in these situation. If she said before “Hey baby what is your ultimate goal for this relationship” she would know where he stood before the 7 years relationship and two kids. If you run a man off because your not nagging but being honest about what it is you want then I seriously doubt it was meant to be in the 1st place.

    IMO she missed her chance to force things. Its not just about her and what she wants anymore that shipped sailed. So now she needs to be happy with what she has(because really there is nothing wrong with it) and express herself when the opportunity persents itself!

  • http://twitter.com/mbrowntheremix Mike Brown the REMIX

    NWSO, you hit the nail on the head with this one.

  • July

    @ The men

    One thing I do not get about men is the fact that you use the excuse that we live together, have kids together (or whatever the case may be), so that should mean committment and a paper shouldn’t determine that.

    If its just a peice of paper and the so-called committment is there then whats so wrong with getting married, where does the fear come from then ‘if its just a peice of paper’. Why does it always have to be the female who has to compromise in the “peice of paper” battle?

  • Soulyn

    Well said LadyPac.

    This is tough. This should have been discussed by Patty and her S.O waaayyyy before 7 years came around. Now that children are in the picture Patty may have a tough dicision to make if things don’t work out in her favor.

    If it were me, I wouldn’t have children in the first place(before marriage) and therefore leaving him would be easier.

    Patty has to do what’s best for her and their children. If she values marriage, which I’m sure she does, then she already knows the answer.

  • Marcrooseler

    Whatever happened to mutuality? Why don’t she just have a talk, why is she on here instead of talking to this man she wants to marry. I mean he did put her through school and is father to their child.

    Stringing her along I feel is such an inflammatory question. Let’s see, provider, put her through school. So all that’s left for HER is marriage. What does he want? Is it always about her?

    A friend of mine put it best when he said “men are only in relationships to provide a service at the woman’s disposal.” When SHE feels it should move on, When SHE feels like the relationship should go somewhere. When SHE feels like marriage. When is HE included?

    I also heard a woman say in modern times, the only purpose of a man in a relationship is as a provider since all the “major” decisions are made by a woman. I’m not saying this is the majority consensus but, why would I be inclined to be with any woman who thinks it’s her right to make all the calls. Why do emotions run on her time schedule? And if he’s not asking yet, then you should ask if you want it that bad, then take it from there. Be ready for the “NO” or “what’s the hurry”. Any answer is valid, regardless of how you feel.

  • TMurph

    call me old fashioned, but she should have been married before they moved in together or had the first child.

    she has put herself in a position where she made it ok to not be married. you can’t change it up years later and now say you need to be married when you have shown time and again your willingness to do all the things a wife should/would do-except be a wife.

    this seems like a moot point now, since she gave control of the issue of marriage over to him she will have to wait for him to want to be married.

    at least they have a good relationship otherwise.

  • http://nwso.net NWSO

    @ Miss G

    You misconstrued what I said. I didn’t say “she should just sit back and be happy rather than married and miserable.” I asked which would she prefer. Ultimately, that’s for her to decide and make her own decision about not any of us. Nor did I say that getting hitched was a fast lane to misery. My point was that while a ring may mean commitment to some/many it doesn’t guarantee automatic happiness, so if she is truly happy—aside from a ring and paper—enjoy your happiness above and beyond a piece of metal or paper. Because if the man doesn’t even make her happy, why should she even want to marry him? Move upward and onward. As people often say, “You can do bad all by yourself.”

    And you’re right, nowhere did she say she was unhappy or happy for that matter. That’s why wrote that it “sounds” like y’all have a good thing going.

    I think you missed the heart of what my advice was and focused in on just some parts and twisted them to something else (no offense). Your advice at the end of your comment was basically what I said. She needs/needed to talk to him (not at him) and pick his brain about what his actual view of marriage is, what his examples of marriage were growing up, if marriage is or ever was a life goal for him. These are all things couples should discuss way before having kids together, but if they have that kind of dialogue maybe they can reach some sort of resolution.

    But i definitely hear you on women having their own commitment fears, in terms of being left to fend for themselves with children etc and a man leaving whenever. At the end of the day, what this all comes down to is how men and women view marriage differently. That’s what the house/war analogy was about, not playing games in a literal sense but what society engrains in little girls’ minds and little boys mind is totally different leading to adults with completely different perspectives on life and love.

  • Gina T!

    Great Advice!! I’ve been with my boyfriend for 11 years and we are not event engaged – I know its an eternity especially for a woman. But we have a pretty good relationship and honestly I’m not really ready for marriage either. We got together when we were really really young, still in HS. If it were up to me I would have wanted to get married at 22/23, so I’m happy that he’s more into waiting. Its been a blessing in disguise, cause who know if we would have gotten married so young if we would even still be together. Sometimes its good to wait, but you have to do what feels right to you.

  • irish_mami8

    Hey, I like Steve Harvey. He may not have all the answers, and I don’t agree with everything he says, but he’s right that women need to have standards and enforce them. Not all women do. I’m not saying that all men are that way, but there are quite a few that are. And those, maybe we shouldn’t even call them men, will only treat a woman as good as she requires them to. This is the voice of experience here. It took me too may bad relationships to figure that out. I was letting men mistreat and disrespect me, and once I stopped, I was able to move on to something better. I know that’s a little off topic, but I admire anyone, male or female, who’s going to remind people that they should not accept anyone stringing them along or treating them with less respect than they are given. I’ll quit talking about Steve Harvey when I find someone else who tells it straight like that. Hopefully, this doesn’t sound like I’m getting an attitude. I got no issues with you, da throne. I’m not saying that anyone on here is like the men he talks about. You guys seem like good people. That’s why I like to read your stuff.

  • da ThRONe

    @July

    1st I dont fear getting married I fear not getting married maybe I watched to many 80′s love movies or something because I think marriages are beautiful.

    But fear of change is human nature. If you are happy the way things are why would you wanna do anything that might disturb your “Happy home”. Once again I have heard countless stories about females either having babies or getting married and pulling 180′s. That shouldnt be to hard to understand. Not to say its an accurate way to think but im sure that is the major fear of marriage.

  • da ThRONe

    As an Adult you should have some sense of self worth. If not there is no book that can give you self worth. From my understanding he is suggesting that grown ass ladies play lil girl games just to get a feel for a man. There is no blueprint to dating because no two people are the same. People can be completely unpredictable. There is only one person that can tell you whats best for you and guess who thats is YOU! The minute we stop letting outside sources tell is who we should be and we start being honest with yourself you will never be a complete person and if your not a complete person you should even attempt to be with somebody else. 1 broken half = 1 broken whole!

  • Jessica Royce

    If marrige means this much to her then she’s clearly not happy. She needs to find out if marrige is something he’s even considering. If he says no then she can move on, if he says yes but not right now, she can choose to wait it out if she really loves him.

  • TallyfromtheValley

    I will not pose my view, but just give an observation of the reality of my life. My father lived with my “step”mother for 21 years … never married. Created my lovely sister. After 22 years, they separated and presently my father is with another woman who WILL NOT commit to living with a man (after a year) unless he marries her … he is only NOW considering marriage.
    People (most often men) will go along with WHATEVER the women allow …
    While you’re probably thinking about marriage, he’s more than likely not AND if anything when FORCED to think about it … he’s more likely just thinking about how to get away from the/any questions …

    good luck.

    Sorry … kinda gave a little of my view.

  • Jersey Taylor

    Umm…

    1) I do not know folks spiritual beliefs, but getting married is more than just a legal document. Marriage is a covenant before God in which your union is being blessed.

    2) Aside from the spiritual aspect, living together and having kids prior to marriage does not give a man incentive to get married. Why would a man commit to marriage when you are providing all of the services of a wife but leaving an out for him? As stated earlier, the mentality of men is why fix it if it ain’t broke? The view is that marriage is fixing or altering a perfectly fine situation when in fact marriage is taking your commitment one step further and saying I will think of US as ONE in the relationship and I will love you without condition.

  • Gifted

    Here is the problem with this….

    ”My issue is why hasn’t this man asked me to marry him yet?”

    Obviously, she never told him what she wanted from the BEGINNING, nor does she know what the value of marriage is. If she did, she wouldn’t be in the situation she’s in now.

    Bottom line, there is lack of communication there, and until she tells him what she wants (and is not afraid of the outcome), he will never marry her. They BOTH have to understand what the marriage vows are. It’s not just about a ring & a wedding.

    Once they can agree on that, pick a date, and give it to him, and make it happen.

  • notahater

    Men who won’t commit are losers. Also, if you’re over 35 and still want to be “SINGLE” and want to “MINGLE” all the time, you’re also a LOSER!!

    Patty, cut your loses…your “MAN” wants to have his cake and eat it too!

    Men who have kids with women and won’t commit are LOSERS!!

    I mean, what is there to fear? You already spreading your seeds. You’re not a man until you can commit.

    Stop using excuses, COMMITMENT PHOBE MEN!! How about working on your ISSUES and stop blaming the woman you’re with as an excuse.

    MESSAGE TO WOMEN: STOP!!! having children without commitment…GOSH@@!@@

  • Marcrooseler

    Jersey, so no marriage no commitment? Who’s beliefs out weighs who? Sadly aside from the “commitment to god” thing, some people tend to think marriage is a fix (and that’s sad within itself). And is marriage for everyone? I don’t think so. And what happens if it is already a perfectly fine situation. The worsts part of that statement are, she’s providing the service and not being married is a man’s and only a man’s safe way to stay not get caught out there hence leave “HIM” an out and what of she?

    The subject always seems so biased as to who is providing who a service. Whatever happened to plain old, we just love each other and this is what we’ve agreed to commit to?

    Half end up in divorce and are the other half happy?

  • DefCon4

    I think for me as long as I am happy and secure in my relationship I wouldnt feel the need to rush marriage. I would definitely rather the man “choose” to be with me and not “submit” to my request… that goes for the begining of a relationship as well. If the question needs to be asked chances are the parties are on two different playing fields to begin with. I like for all my relationships to manifest organically so I never have to question why the person is there!

  • notahater

    Oh yea, if he wanted to marry you, he would’ve married you years ago.

  • notahater

    SO WHAT if he paid for your school…that don’t mean Sh*t

  • notahater

    LADIES: DON’T PROPOSE to your man…NOT SEXY!!

  • DefCon4

    @ notahater

    I do agree with that as well.. I don’t believe it takes more than a couple years for anyone to know if they want to marry a person or not. I don’t just mean 2 years of casual dating, but a serious committed (hopefully) relationship. If in 2+ years time either party is still “unsure” there is the answer right there.

    So you can take it for what it is… if you are happy then you are in a good relationship wtih someone that treasts you well so enjoy it becuase there are plenty people out there that could be doing just the opposite. If you are unhappy (for reasons other than the lack of a ring & papers) then go & don’t wait… marriage will not fix anything.

  • da ThRONe

    @notahater

    *hug*

    You need that one. Tell momma what that evil man did you! LOL Momma know momma know!!!

    I think one question is whats his idea of commitment is. To him there living together paying bills together and raising kids together it dont get much more committed then that! So what do we tell Patty S.O. when Patty gets that ring and flip? Stop jumping on him they are equally responsible for this issue.

  • Jersey Taylor

    Marcrooseler , if marriage weren’t more of a commitment then men or women wouldn’t fear it. Obviously it is more than “a piece of paper” and deeper than the current “situation” or people would be more inclined to marry. I also feel that the notion of being perfectly happy and marriage somehow changes that happiness is absurd. With that being said, marriage is not to be taken lightly and you cannot assume that everyone wants to marry. Therefore, it is a must that you are on the same page.
    Unfortunately, it seems Patty didn’t state her needs/intentions up front and neither did her SO. Therefore, she is at a point where she needs to make the decision to stay in the current situation or leave.

  • da ThRONe

    @Jersey Taylor

    You never seen or heard of marriage changing people? The idea while it is a pussy ass cop out I have seen it done many times before. And can understand why it would be on anybody mind when considering jumping the broom.

  • Baow!

    I think us men are reluctant to jump into marriage because, legally, we feel we have much more at stake if the marriage were to end. Loss of property, alimony, and child custody should be taken into consideration when considering commitment to anyone. I know that in many states cohabitation after a certain amount of time is considered a domestic partnership (not sure about my home state LA). However, marriage is much more clearly defined legally.

    I think in America we tend to over romaticize marriage. Not to say that love and romance are not to be taken seriously into consideration. We need to focus as much on the practicality as we do to the romanticism of the situation. If people were to view marriage more in terms of a business partnership we would be better able to make the decision of who we spend our lives with objectively.

  • Neska

    Ladies and gents you gotta let your SO know what you want and expect then enforce it or else you’ll be strung along or stringing someone around which is wrong on soooo many levels. 7yrs is a long time to be with someone with such uncertainty around, so Patty definitely has to find out what her man feels about marriage, consider their children and move from there.
    Jersey Taylor I’m with you. I’ve always seen marriage as me and my man going before God and professing our commitment to one another. Yeah it takes time to really know someone but 7yrs and ur still not sure, ouh, ouh. I aint saying rush and get married afta 4months of knowin each other now.

  • Ms P

    Mel & Elle, I am sooooo with you!!!

    I don’t know how old Patty is. However, I would think that women by their late 20s should know to say up front what they would like in a relationship… in general terms. Most men,in my experience, will tell you what they are looking for too if asked. I have a friend who met a man (after dumping her boyfriend of 2 yrs because he would not marry her) & she told him she wanted to get married. She was 40 & he was in his late 40s at that time. Well he told her immediately he had no intentions of ever getting married again. Fast forward 6 years later, they buy a house together & still no ring although she keeps telling him she wants to be married. After 1 year she finds out out he has an apartment. He later moved out of the house but guess what they go back to DATING each other!!! Crazy. And now she is 49 (still no ring) and he is in his late 50s still content to have his girlfriend. In the meantime, another friend of mine meets a man who has recently gotten out of a long relationship with a woman he never married. He had 2 children with this woman, and was with her 14 years, and never married her. Well he meets my friend & 3 months later he has bought her a ring!!! They are getting married in a few months. The “baby mama” is losing her mind now because he met someone else & is marrying her almost an hour after he met her! SMH. Again we are talking about adults in their 40s. Oh yeah, I just thought about a relative of mine. She meets a man who is living with a woman & their 4 kids. He never married the baby’s mother although he was an excellent provider for them. Well that man met my relative & 2 yrs later he married her!!! Left the baby’s mama AND those 4 kids although he continued to provide for them!! Fifteen years later he & my relative are still married.

    We as women must be upfront about what we want. However, when a man is honest with you BELIEVE HIM. When someone shows you who they are, believe it. Actions speak louder than words. Also, just because he has had children with you & is a good provider doesn’t mean that he thinks you are The One for him to marry. Perhaps he is just responsible. Personally I feel that at a certain age, you either know if that person could be your partner for life or you don’t. It doesn’t take decades to figure it out.

    Patty, YOU have to decide what it is that YOU want. I wish you peace with your decision. There is no need to rush because you have a serious decision to make. However, to wait another 7 years would be a bit much. Time flies, and you don’t want to be 14 years in & still have this same issue in your head. Pray for peace & clarity.

  • Organized Chaos

    Is her man just stringing her along?

    –From the description of what the home life is like, no, it doesn’t sound as though he is stringing her along.

    Do you think he’ll ever pop the question or he’s just too comfortable with the way things are?

    –I think he is going to pop the question, but, in his own time, not when Patient Patty wants him to.

    Should she give him an ultimatum?

    –No, ultimatums are overrated unless you are the ‘I am speaking my peace and putting this into action’ type of lady and he is the ‘okay she is pissed, maybe I should listen to what she has to say’ type of guy. If he is stubborn, you would be wasting your breath!

    Should she flip the script and propose to him?
    –Speaking from a ‘traditional’ female perspective, that defeats the purpose, so, no don’t do that!

    What’s more important, your current happiness or the lifelong commitment of a ring?

    –Both can be achieved IF both parties are game. Patient Patty, you need to sit your fella down and REALLY TALK to him not AT him, TO him. Let him speak his peace and then determine where you will go from there.

    How long would you wait for someone to propose?

    –If I were in a ‘long-term committed relationship’ with a man that I loved and that loved me, he would already know what we were working toward, so, waiting wouldn’t even be an issue.

    I hope this helps, and Sistahgirl, you should PRAY for peace in your soul and clarity of this issue. I hope things work out for you and your fella. And above all else, I hope whatever happens is best not only for you two, but for the children as well.

  • PeachesNPuddin (formerly NuB)

    wow…
    i have only breezed through the comments/replies that ppl have given… however, my take on the issue is this: (granted this is coming from 26, black, female) …

    patient patty (lol)
    don’t feel like you’re nagging the issue. hell the two of you already have a life together, why not make it official? however, i DO AGREE WITH NSWO, perhaps you may want to get your guy’s view on marriage and ask yourself those few questions? are/were his parents married, if so? what values and morals were sacred to that marriage? are your parents married and how did u grow up? how many failed marriages has the either of you seen? how many of your (both) friends are married? those are the handful of questions that i would back up??

    secondly, perhaps asking for his hand in marriage isn’t a bad thing. i never thought about it that way. but first thing is first, find out where his heart AND mind are in reference to marriage. then make a peaceful decision.

    ppl might say that things are complicated when children are involved, and that they can be, but when folks decide to step up and make adult moves, follow up with adult decisions. that’s also a part of life.

    now how long would i wait? i’m in no rush for commitment at this time. so i can’t give much feedback from that perspective. i dig the whole steps-to-a-lifetime ordeal … but i have nothing but time. i’ve already been created for my husband-to-be… our stars will align, eventually.

    -peace n salutations-

  • Elle

    Da Throne hit the nail on the head when he suggested to ask a potential S.O. early on what his/her intentions, views, plans are.
    Although I have caused jaws to drop with my very bold approach, it has saved me valuable time and headache. A man will be honest when asked at a point where he has nothing really to lose just yet.

    Another thing is this fear of women doing a 180 once their last name changed. Men do that too. A LOT! My sperm donor being a prime example. I have come across a great number of women who had no idea who the guy was once they were married.
    And to quote one of my girls from college “well, now it’s too late.” She married this regular guy who showed no signs of being a muslim fanatic just to find herself having to read the Koran, not being allowed to eat gummi bears and being covered from head to toe.
    So yea, men lurr women into marriage as well to be showing their true colors once the deed has been done.

  • Spoiled1

    I’m new here and wanted to add my two cents…

    It’s obvious that Patient Patty has created a “situation” for herself so in my opinion “woulda, coulda, shoulda’s” are irrelevant at this point. She probably knows in her mind that she should’ve spoken up years ago (hence the letter to NWSO), but was probably holding out for him to speak up, step up, or whatever. I’m going out on a limb here to say that she has reached a point in her life where she simply wants more. 7 years is a long time to be involved in a relationship with someone and in that period of time your needs and wants may very well change. Patty has spoken up and asked him “what the deal is” and all he can say is “What’s the rush?” I would expect this type of a response from a man if we’d only known each other for a year or so. Clearly marriage is something he doesn’t want to address. Therefore that is red flag number one. To continue to ask this question would be considered nagging. As others have mentioned I would get his views on marriage. This is something that needs to be communicated. I hate to beat a dead horse, but truly the Steve Harvey book gives it you straight. He talks about “the plan” that a man has for you. So Patient Patty—ask your man what his plans and intentions are for you and the relationship? In doing so be prepared to accept the outcomes as they may be unfavorable. He may not want to marry you. This doesn’t mean you should stay because he put you through nursing school and you have children. Again Steve talks about standards. If marriage is a standard of yours, then don’t sell yourself short. I don’t support the theory of staying with a man only because he provides for you, have kids, etc. Besides you are a nurse so you are more than able to provide for you and your children if need be! I personally feel as though staying because ‘its good” will perpetuate the cycle that is already in progress. You will only allow him to do what he’s always done and is doing. You have to reach a point where YOU are happy with your decisions. Besides the children, what would be your reason for staying with a man who doesn’t seem interested in marriage or even discussing it for that matter? Is it because its comfortable and that is how you’ve always done it? Finally to address the questions Patient Patty put out there:

    Do you think that women set themselves up for failure the second they have sex with a man before marriage?

    It all depends on the man and the situation. I would say it depends more on what happens after the sex. Again if you have no standards and continue to sleep with him with no commitment then yes, you are setting yourself up for faiilure (my opinion).

    Do you think that no man is going to settle down with a woman that has done everything a wife would do without the commitment?

    My answer here is almost the same as the one above. It simply depends. I have to ask the question why you would be “playing wife” to a man without expressing to him that marriage is a requirment of yours? It just seems contradictory. If you express it, and he blows you off, doesn’t address it, or simply is not interested in marriage, then you stop playing his wife right? The real issue here is having standards and standing behind what you believe in. We all make mistakes but those mistakes come with consequences. Patient Patty not sure if this ramble as helped you any, but please do some autodiagnosing ( I am a nurse too so that word should mean something to you :) trust yourself and move on.

  • Caribeza

    This is an interesting post and it tackles so many underlying issues. For any flamers, this is are generalized statements using some typical stereotypes… it does not mean everyone.

    For people who say they are doing their do regardless of what society thinks … is that really true? Society has ingrained the play war/set up house in lil guys/girls since goodness knows when. And it is something that affects us no matter how independent we grow up to be.

    Women spend their dating lives trying to get proof to the world at large, their family, their prying aunts, grandma, frowning papas, and their bitchy girlfriends that they are worth something i.e. a man has valued them enough to put a ring on their fingers. People like Goldie Hawn and Kurt Russell are rare.

    Men spend their dating life playing tag without being caught, and having their friends and society admire them for it. Even if they are “caught” appearances have to be kept up so they don’t have the big sign on their head “Pussy…Whipped”. Even if he’s living with someone and had 15 kids, he still needs to be seen as a man who has the potential ability to go out and “tag” it.

    Marriage is definitely not the harmonizing product of the above 2 scenarios.

    For Patient Patty, she compromised on her own needs hoping her man would recognize this, and therefore give something back to her –> her pride/a wedding ring. For the guy he might have compromised in his own way … “I’m living with you and providing for you, aren’t I, What more do I have to give up!”

    But she’s is perpetuating a vicious cycle where little girls see their mothers/heroes compromising/suffering silently in order to hope and pray that a man eventually gives them what they want. Little boys see women sacrifice their own major needs in order to give a man what he obviously deserves. And the cycle of non-communication and assumption and resentment continues.

    If Patty is ok with this she should stay, or she is happy and knows her man loves her and is her future. But if she is seriously not happy and feels undervalued and taken advantage of, regardless of the provider qualities of this guy. She, with or without great provider, needs to make an adult plan and get herself out of this situation while keeping her kids emotionally whole and stable.

    But honestly, after living with a guy for 7 yrs and having his kids, if she does not intuitively understands what drives him by then, to be honest, I think she is purposely blind and sort of idiotic. If you live with for someone that long and still have no idea of what their family life was like and their goals or needs in life, and how you figure in their life, you have chosen not to be responsible for your role in their life.

    Sometimes, we as women, wait for a guy to positively confirm that what we are asking for is something they’ll never be able to give for whatever reason they have, which is why we nag athem to anser us verbally. Men show a lot by their actions, not necessarily their words. So if our instincts are already screaming at us to get the hell out of Dodge,then do it! Patty wants clear confirmation, which is why she is writing to NWSO. And guys/girls don’t want to hurt the other person’s feelings by telling them “No, you’re not enough or what I want”. Either because the person will cry/promise to change and other such nonsense.

    But honestly, the truth sets people free. People as best as possible need to live so their hearts and minds aren’t at cross-purposes. Trust your instincts.

  • bellabellablue

    That’s 5 years too long!

  • bogart4017

    Just talk to him calmly is all. Keep your tone non-accusatory and listen very very carefully. The man’s intentions will be there somewhere between the lines.

  • http://www.nakedwithsockson.com/2009/04/21/how-long-should-a-woman-wait-for-a-ring/ jamnychi

    Greetings! I believe that you have unintentionally received misleading information. It sounds like marriage is important to you (at least at this point)and it should be …as it is most protective for children—and you have 2 with HIM. MOST men know within 6 months to 1 year whether or NOT they will marry you. If his views about marriage, whether due to his upbringing, his past or something else that is unhelpful for YOUR satisfaction in the relationship should be of no consequence to you. There is a book called Why Men Marry Some Women and Not Others by Robert Molloy ( it is based on marriage statistical research data) it will tell you what men who get married believe about the women they choose. That book will also tell you that men who stay in “long” relationships but are unmarried USUALLY eventually leave and WILL marry someone else WITHIN a year. It is critical that you set some boundaries with him by letting him know how important marriage truly is to you (when you BOTH are in a good mood) and listen to what he says. Just REMEMBER that your desires are as important as his.

  • eee

    Just some random thoughts;

    My mother was with my father for 16 years waiting for him to make an honest woman of her, when she finally left him, I was 12. And as a 12 year old I was happy for her because I felt like their relationship would never grow beyond what it already was. She met my step-father soon after leaving my dad and he popped the question on their first date, they have been married for 23 years.

    If I had kids with a man who stalled getting married to me, I would really worry about the type of message this would send to my children as well. I would really question this man’s motives and his feelings for me. I would question this man’s devotion to me, respect for me and his care for me. If a man is with you for longer than 3 years , kids or no kids, and he does not propose, he is not a family man although he might be pretending to be one. Only selfish, self-absorbed boys are afraid of marriage.

    I am 34 and have been seeing someone for about 16 months and have been thinking about marriage in my life. I think that if he does not propose within 6-8 months I will have to leave. In the meantime no moving in together and no kids. I feel that I can not stay with him past that point because I will be selling myself short and as we get older we don’t have as much time to wait around as when I was 21.

  • Deep2111

    Patty needs to put a date out there and express to him that she would like to be married by then, or she will leave and take the kids with her. If she is that adamant about being married, and if he is not willing to lose his family it will happen. The days of a woman waiting to be asked are over. Let him know what you want, and if you are prepared to move on if he says he’s not ready, then move on. If you aren’t prepared to do that, be quiet and wait it out.

  • Nadine

    As women we need to set our standards of what we want in a relationship. She accepted the relationship as is for 7 years, now she wants marriage. In the beginning she should have told him what she excepted. If their goals and future plans were not compatible, then she should have made another choice. Sometimes women get caught up in the ring and what it means. Forget the ring. Are you happy in the relationship? If yes then the is just a formality.

  • Tasha

    I feel you ! I have been a relationship for 11 years with my children’s father and still have not gotten married. He has proposed but still no marriage and I am ready to leave. My children’s father is a good guy very good father, I know he would give me the world if he could but the one thing I want he can’t give me. All I’m saying, don’t wait forever!! It’s great that you have a great realtionship, he put you through school, and is a great provider but what happens if he never marries you?

  • da ThRONe

    @Tasha

    If she never marries here see remains unmarried but happy! Once again Its not just about her and him anymore being a parent means making sacrifices.

  • Anonymous

    If u know what u want go for it dnt settle for less life is too short don’t let fear stop you, somethings are more simple then we make it out to be.

  • single23

    This is a bad situation that could have been avoided by not playing house in the first place. I have read everyone’s response and I think everyone should reread her letter. no where in the letter does she state that he is good to her. She states all the reasons she has stayed with him but the one that really counts.

    I think that now she feels like that she has invested all this time into this and now she is waiting for the payoff. She makes no mention of their personal interaction or how much they love each other, she approahces it like its a business deal as if she has no emotions in this any longer and now she just needs justification for staying with him so long and having two kids with him.

    It’s nice for her to try to understand why he doesn’t want to “rush” but she is already doubting his feelings for her and she is no longer happy. I don’t think she needs to give him ultimatums, but i truly believe if a man loves you, not just men, but women as well, if a person loves you they will do what they need to do to make you happy.

    I will never tell a woman who has already given 5 yrs and 2 children to a man to keep going with the flow. From the tone in her letter I think she is feeling used and stupid, and that this isn’t going to end in marriage. I personally don’t think they will get married, but I would love to be proven wrong. If he truly loves this woman, he if not going to let another year go by without marrying her, and I think she would be stupid to let another year to go by and to give birth to another one of his kids without being married to him.

    Wasn’t there already a blog about single moms being damaged goods? The more kids you have as a single woman the more undesirable you become to other men, but don’t let the fear of that keep you in a relationship that is going nowhere. you can go nowhere all by yourself

  • da ThRONe

    @single23

    If he was bad to her then why does she wanna get married? So to assume he is a good man only makes sense. And if we can assume hes a good man than its not asking her to go through torture to stay with him unmarried.

    Sometimes the only way you can be happy is if you do settle. If you always want more than you can never appreciate what it is you have.

  • JANUARY

    IF IT’S NOT BROKEN DON’T FIX IT.
    You may be wondering ‘when is he going to make an honest woman out of me?’ Well.. don’t! It’s like saying ‘why haven’t i won the grand prize for the lottery?’ Reality check, you can’t always get what you want. Consider yourself lucky, because in this case you HAVE A MARRIAGE, you just didnt have the wedding. My friends had the wedding… but the marriage was a failure and they are so unhappy. On the other hand my grandfather stayed with my grandmother without a wedding or a marriage contract, but they were together till the end of their life at the age of 83.
    Count your blessings that he’s always there for you and your kids. Just forgive him that he doesn’t think like you do.

  • Anonymous

    the answer is simple: Why buy the cow if you get the milk for free?

    I think he is using you.

  • anisha

    “do you want a man to submit or commit to you?” never thought of it this way.

  • nah

    I think that no matter what the situation you should only wait until the fact that what you are doing is waiting actually comes to mind.once youre actually waiting on something you are aware that there are other options and if your gonna spend life with someone no other options should be present in your mind.

  • babie diamond

    I am 32 years old now and I have been off and on with same guy from the age of 24. He says I have all the qualities of a wife . Out of the years we have been off and on, I would honestly say ,we have only been together half of the time. He has been saying this for the last 2years that we gotten back together that he I have all the qualities of a wife , I am the closes to a wife etc… . It’s a new year! I feel like I am now pressuring him . I don’t want to pressure anyone into anyhting they don’t want to do themselfs. What do you think I should do ? How long should you wait for a ring?
    3years
    4years
    5years

  • da ThRONe

    @babie diamond

    I so respect your understanding the importances of not forcing things because a set time limit isnt what is needed. What I would advise is for you to trust your feelings. Only you can decide when enough is enough. Also there is a fine line between expressing whats important to you and “pressing him”. If marriage is what you want dont allow him or anybody to make you wait longer then you feel like you should wait(within reason). If he hasnt made his mind up after 8 years what makes you think he’s going just up and do it?

    And on a sidenote sometimes people need to feel a lil heat or some since of urgency in order to do things they should have been done.

  • babie diamond

    @da throne

    Thanks appreciate your feedback. I was taught if a man wants you he will do what ever it takes to make you happy. Don’t pressure him because he will resent you and in turn you will be unhappy.

    I feel it has been so long — I don’t know if I would say ‘yes’. Is this a bad thing?

  • da ThRONe

    LOL @ babie diamond

    Break him down. Then turn him down. LOL

    Just based on that statement I would tell you to move on.

  • Dieter Aschenbrenner

    Hi,

    If a man does not feel that he wants to get married, it could be a fear of not being good enough, or a fear of being controlled.

    It’s really important that when you want to get a man to do something that you find the ways that make him want to get married, the reason being is because ultimate men want love, and they also want freedom.

    If they do not find freedom within a relationship then they go elsewhere to find freedom, in their job, sports, movies on war etc.

    Because it is the masculine energy that wants to obtain freedom, it is a driving penetrating energy that wants to breakthrough and release. Whereas the feminine energy wants to fill up and feel.

    So it’s a great thing in any area of life when you are faced with a challenge is to ask the question “how is this reflecting something back on me?” because everything in our external world is a reflection of what’s going on within the unconscious mind.

    So if there are any ways in which you could find out what he really wants, and meet those needs within the relationship then he will be happy to commit, because ultimately he wants to see you happy AND he does not want to be in a place where he cannot be free.

    When a man’s woman is happy then he feels like he is successful and it makes him happy, but when she is unhappy it does not help his situation, it only makes him feel like a failure. Contrary to what many people think, apart from what most people think a man wants is secondary to making his woman happy when he truly loves her.

    But at the same time he’s gotta have that freedom, so you could look for ways to give him more freedom and even more love and then he will be drawn to what you want to make you happy. Make sure he gets his ‘cave’ time when he needs it and the more freedom you give him the more you will own him as opposed to the fear that some woman have of what freedom would give a man.

    I hope that helps,

    Warm regards,

    Dieter Aschenbrenner

  • Patty

    I have been with someone for almost two years..we are in our 40′s..and now live together. He has told me for over a year he plans on marrying me one day..but he seems to have excuses as to why he hasn’t proposed “his ex will get more support” “possibly some day” “In my own time (that was when people asked why aren’t we married yet)” and he tells me I am the one for him…we make a great couple…etc..but he just can’t seem to make that committment..it is hard to be the one waiting. Sometimes I wonder if I have made it too easy not to marry me..

  • dave

    And you think that this compares with the rejection that comes with
    having to make the first move? You are insane!

  • v. watts

    I just understand where she’s coming from. I am in the same situation and I don’t understand it. So reading the post and comments are answering a lot of my questions and concerns. I’ve decided to just let it go and pray to God letting him know that it is my hearts desire to be wed, but my partner is not ready yet, and I love him and he makes me happy, that’s why I am asking for your understanding and forgiveness for my shacking and breaking your law, in Jesus name Amen. I rather be happy then married and miserable, it’s been along time since I have been in a good lasting relationship and our kids that we don’t have together are close and already brother and sisters and the one we have together who is 2 and the youngest of 12, who loves us all and consider us a family that will always be together (she’s happy). So I don’t want to mess that up or hurt the children with relationship issues. I will wait, I know he loves me and my family and will do anything for us to make us happy, even if it killed him or got him locked up lol. Well sorry I took up this much time but I’m gone now. :) God bless

  • chelsey

    I’ve been with the same guy since I was 16 and I am now 22, we have a 3 yr old daughter together. And he hasnt popped the question yet, and when i ask him he says he can’t afford it…..which yeah right cause he can put thousands of dollars into his truck.
    I ma starting to think that he is just comfortable and it will never happen. what can I do I already gave him the ultimatuem and he laughs cause he thinks that i won’t leave if he doesnt get me a ring…but he is wrong.

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  • anonymous

    nooo, bs that person is an idiot. if the man doesnt propose there IS something wrong. i would have left a long time ago. women dont have the time to sit and wait til their OLD AS DIRT to have a wedding.. . plain and simple. and women ARE miserable if they stay THAT FREAKING LONG with a man and he doesnt propose. thats just wrong. how could a man not give a woman everything shes ever wanted?? only REAL MEN stay with women and propose. only cowards hide. hes not worth staying with if he causes u that much emotional trauma knowing if its ever going to happen. thinking to yourself if your even worth his time or effort to do that for u. that man sounds emotionally lazy. and then call the woman a nag?? a man that calls a woman a nag for wanting one simple thing?? how could someone hurt someone that bad?? most women waited that long for that one moment in their ENTIRE FREAKING LIFE how can a man ruin it like that? how would a man feel if he waited his whole life for something then it NEVER HAPPENED. youd be pretty much in shambles. what man has the balls to tell a woman they should wait. men dont understand the fact that why buy the cow when you can get the milk free. if he really loved you he would have proposed by now. i would have walked out by now.. . i dont wait 6 yrs for that. thats pitter pattering around and trying to stay “single” thats immature. i know it sounds heartless but i literally wouldnt have stayed that long. i dont mess around like that i dont take anything from anyone, hell my boyfriend ever tries to call me a nag im going to rip him a vagina.

    • anonymous

      and then tell him to make me a sammich LOLZ