I Don’t Date Girls In Gangs (Sorry, Sorority Sisters)

Son! You're about to get lynched for this blog.

- Belle

i so agree w/ belle because these so called gangs are like a cult. smh its a damn shame i believe from my experience in north carolina that they break u down to nothn and build u up to be someone else. its quite strange as to why anyone would want to join besides who wants to pay for friends and to be part of an organization. thats just my opinion but i soo agree w/ us nwso! i dont do gangbangers who think for a whole and not as indivduals. (now this isnt all of them but enough of you spoiled it for the rest of yall)

I attend a "traditional" campus with a very active greek system. I am one of the VERY few on my campus who has not pledged and with no interest in pledging. I agree with everything that's said in this post. Sure I am not on the "inside" but I am close enough to it to see that what was said in this post is pretty darn close to the real thing...at least in my opinion...

I have seen the system change people, who let the org define their personality. The entire pledge process BUGS me out! I hear the things that go on and it just makes absolutely no sense....How could you go through that process one minute and then turn around and call those people your brothers or sisters???

My brand manager says that point blank, those orgs are for people who might have gotten a late start at this networking thing, don't quite know what they want to do in life, or don't know who they are... I agree some what but I could go on forever.

POINT of this is... KUDOS to you for being brave enough to post this!! Be prepared for the worse though, I expect these comments to get BRUTAL.

ans, ur brother is in a frat but u dont' know which one? sorry, that isn't cool. if it was important enough for him to join (*disclaimers* and y'all are close and he truly reps his org, some folk don't for whatever reason), you should actually remember it. if y'all ain't close - well that's another blog for another day.

Fraternity, Clique, Gang, Family, etc. All similar however the outcomes from each vary...

@Taco Meat (LOL) I'm just joking
Okay, I'm a Kappa Diamond and I can identify with what you feel because I've met some sisters that take their membership beyond dedication...almost to obsession and graduating to stupidity.

I love my soro sisters and my frat brothers with my heart. When I pledged, it was fun and a real bonding moment. I never got branded (I will not scar my body for any group or person other than to give birth via c-section). I was never humiliated or denigrated and I would not have stood for that. I chose my sorority because of what they stood for in general and with in the community and on campus. And I liked the sisters who were already members.
Our "big brothers" were gentlemen (well, most of them LOL) and they treated us like queens.
Some people need something...groups; other people in order to feel defined within themselves and life. People like that end up breaking the bonds of their sorority rather than binding them.
The females you met were obviously on some sort of mission...mind trip. I would have asked them what dope they were on or coming off of because they sounded and behaved like crack heads...female thugs.
Sisters like that will eventually run into the wrong brother...that brother with the "O'Dog" alter ego who will act thuggish right along with them and then they're going to get hurt for jumping in someone's face over something stupid.

SMH

All of us - Hell, I dare to say not 70 percent of us act like that over our sorority ties. I would have kept it cool until I knew whether you were playing or not...and even then I would have dealt with you very lightly aka lady-like.

Those females aren't AKA's, they're idiots masquerading as AKA's. Big difference. I know quite a few AKA's and they're pretty cool. I'm sure they would agree that these females were tripping.

It's unfortunate you had this experience. Next time the Kappa Diamonds/Sweethearts and Kappa Alpha Psi have a frat ball or block party, I'll be sure to invite you. That will likely change your opinion.

I dont believe you have any hatred or whatever towards frats or sororities....just a really bad encounter with members of one.
People who lose their individual identities after joining a frat or sorority had no identity beforehand. Joining a group should not alter who you are or turn you into the devil incarnate unless you were a shell...or the devil incarnate before you joined.

Let's try and remember that these are social groups not Zulu Nation or the Latin Kings or La Cosa Nostra. Sheesh!

I had to agree with your analysis on this to a degree. I am a Delta and while I would not have reacted that way, I can't speak for everyone. But not all sororities or frats act like this, trust me.
Some of these people do act like cults and their members, like Manson Family members.Some of us are young when we go over, but if you're strong minded and a healthy individual when you join, you'll know where to draw the line just as LE described.
School Days, as a matter of fact, brought back memories for me. Thanks for trip down memory lane! I'm looking forward to your next article already!

imma leave post this alone after this comment i hope:

ans, if your brother joined a "white" fraternity, he doesn't have the same lifelong affiliation like the historically AA ones (unless a part of an honor society like phi beta kappa). from my understanding, the "white" fraternities and sororities treated frat life as just a social part of college and thats it. These organizations don't really foster a major connection amongst their members after graduation. They treated like a memory of another affiliation they had during those 4 or more years, kinda like being in a certain dorm, or floor. minority frats and sororities have a different stance treating the membership taken in college as a lifelong commitment, affiliation and participation.

no, i am not greek. however, my best friends from college are affiliated as well as two family members (one aa sorority, one latina sorority). i grew up in a household similar to yours (NYC, foreign born parents). since i didn't grow up with the history of what those organizations were about, i learned about them and research it when i went to college because I wanted to. I didn't attend an HBCU, I went to a predominantly majority school 2 hrs outside of NYS.

Essentially, what i'm drawing from your responses (and the initial post that started this whole commentary) was you were never interested in the fraternity thing and never took the time to learn about it, you just took what you heard and let those unfounded statements validate your initial feelings. You never really chose to give the orgs any chance to learn the positive side or if the rumors and negative things were true and continue to vocalize and perpetuate the negative mentality towards those organizations.

i c/s belle and ms bb's comments and hope I was able to articulate my thoughts as well as they did.

and ans, u ain't slick . this will probably end up one of your most popular blogs.

@ ?

1. let me apologize to NWSO for having my blog biz being over here in his space.

2. The Wonder Years is about my perceptions at 18. I'm 30 now. I've learned and experienced a lot since I was a college sophomore.

That wasn't why my mother was against it. She was, with good cause, worried about the antics of 18-22 y.o. men who often let their popularity to go to their heads and acted out. Her perceptions of how male letter/number guys behaved had little to do with the processes of hazing, group think, etc. and everything to do with the stereotypes she heard from others about young men who were a part of the institutions/organizations. My mom's from the Midwest, didn't go away to school and went to a small college that had no Black greek life, or athletic teams for that matter.

I had a bad experience with ONE athlete, the only one I ever dated in college. I don't think all athletes are awful b/c of Jason Randolph. Never dated a letter in school. The ones I knew though? Love them to this day like cooked food. They held me down then and continue to do so now. I can not date letters and still have respect for letters.

For me, the image sororities/fraternities portray "most times" isn't the crazy stuff folks harp on. It's community service and brother/sisterhood. Sometimes people chose to see what they want and ignore what doesn't fit their perception. I acknowledge there is some bad in S/Fs but I think there's waaaaaay more good.

And again, I stress: We do a lot of good in the community and on campus, but like anything in life, there are some organizations that need to check their members.

Hopefully, your next experience will be a positive one. As a matter of fact, I'm sure it will be because we have far too many intelligent, fun, beautiful sorority members for you not to meet up with a good one.

Peace, Love and Lechon grease to one and all.

Keep speaking wisdom, NWOS.

Ans,

I was born in the Caribbean, but attend college in the South. Before crossing the Mason-Dixon line, I knew NOTHING about NPHC except my 5th grade teacher who wore pink and green excessively. Even my first week as a freshman was filled with uninformed perceptions of black greeks. I took my time to research all nine organizations and was pleased with what I found. Initially, I thought them to be shallow and more like a club (this was after my first college party, so the strolling was what gave me this interpretation). After research, I wasn't so critical. As a non-greek, it's not my business to pass judgment on the choices of others...especially when their actions (such as their vast community service) overshadow their words (the chants that have nothing to do with nothing)!

your writing on this topic is trite. and bland. you are jealous of the traffic belle is generating with her wonder years story so instead of being inventive or creative, you go negative. *yawn* next you'll tell your readers that after stepshows Greeks go palling around with terrorists...

i know you thought you were going to rile up some sorors with this divisive mess but you have failed-- NOT ONE woman from the groups to which you targeted your post (AKAs or Deltas) even bothered to leave a comment for you (at the time of this writing.) the warnings that you were "going to start something" unfortunately for you were false. you selected an elementary approach to generate reader interest; shame on you. this further let's me know how little you understand about the richness of the Black Greek experience.

try writing about things you know about, like rejection or excrement.

PS: i call bullshit on your story about the aka's skee-weeing after an
ignorant, drunk comment from an ignorant (on this topic) drunk person. gimme a break. i suppose you want me to believe the one about em too.

@NWSO

Joining a sororitie/frat is nothing like joining the miilitary. You can't even compare the two, not even on the same level. Yes there might be some type of hazing in the military but that is done for a reason...to establish dicipline that can one day be the deciding factor in living or getting yourself and other people killed. The military is there to protect the freedom that we have so people can run around and join frats/ sororites and howl like animals if they like. Don't see them risking there lives for that. I don't see them going away from their families a year at a time in countries that don't like the U.S military to protect that freedom. So no, joining a Frat or Sororitie is NOTHING like joining the military.

also if a person can say branding actually makes them happy, there must be something wrong with them

Get the book, Our Kind Of People by Lawrence Otis Graham.

I feel the same way about Bike clubs.

@military man
I feel you on that. I hate when people say that too.What branch are you?

Ruffling some feathers I see, me likes.

I love how people skim through the blog and nit pick what they think is being said rather than what is actually said. Reading is fundamental and they missed the point completely.

The truth is the light that's why folks get mad.

president obama and 1st lady michelle are not in any greek organizations. i believe i read somewhere in an interview thier stance was if they can't join them all they wouldn't join any. which is pretty fair at this stage in the game.

but i also read that phi beta sigma is induction bill clinton, i think that is kind of awesome.

I feel as a black man I am already part of an elite fraternity. Too bad other black men dont share my sentiments. Also as black people why are trying to duplicate a Greek society that took so much from Africans? Why not have African frats and sororities?

I am a proud member of a greek organization and to completely understand greek life you have to be a part of it simple. Every chapter, school, and organization is different (there is also a big different between black greek organizations and white greek organizations) and I hate it when people automatically generalize all greeks. With that being said I also hate it when people make their greek organizations their ENTIRE life and can’t see beyond their three letters and their colors. If you wanna be GDI or greek who cares at the end of the day, everything isn’t for everybody.

I came into this post expecting a couple laughs as to why maybe a guy wouldn’t date a sorority girl–something lighthearted about how we’re always with our LSs or something, but not this

^^^^- is also what I expected something that was going to make me laugh but by the end of the first paragraph I knew this was not something I needed to read

I make no apologies for my ignorance.
Also New Yorker/Caribbean descent representative, BKNY raised, US Army for 19 1/2 year. And yes, would never join a fraternity.
Not because of gang mentality (as per the dictionary definition) but as the aforementioned upraisings and affiliations has not been a "need" in the NYC or Caribbean communities, mostly because these affiliations are already Fraternities and Sororities. We wear our Caribbean nation colors in representation of our legacies and struggles and journies. There are plenty of crossovers or transmutations by both CA and AA groupings alike, as well as cross racial/enthicity pairings.
I don't think it a diss if you spell out the stereotypes/assumptions that you only know of, and think it just as ignorant if you do think when one says this is what they know and instead of educating them, think oneself as being attacked.
For example, I paddle on a boat full of Asians, a Chinese team member says to me (as I'm eating a piece of watermelon), that he has to go run and get some white rice and soy sauce. I laugh (as he eats his chicken and watermelon).
I work with a diverse group and keep diverse groups of friends/associates and family too I might add. But wouldn't it make so much more sense that instead of assuming that someone is always insulting you that you educate them on the questions being posed and help dispel the false assumptions?
I remember being asked to pledge years ago, and my reason for not doing so is that, even though through their great history of collective support for community and having each other's backs through dire times. As AAs and CAs and Afri-As make up our ranks, I still feel a divisiveness and self serving interest within their ranks. Meaning, like many traditions, you need to convert the young (transition if you prefer) to the mindset. But where is the unification of communities? Where is the Opening scene in the Warriors where all the gangs, orgs, groupings, Island people, Greeks come to meet and say, though not monolithic, we are all people of the sun and somewhere in the middle, with all our titles and differences and cultures, we're all just as ignorant at times about each other and either we learn about each other or keep the bliss alive in ignorance.
It took years for lots of my friends to know that I was in the US Military or even Caribbean, hence the sense of loss of identity is mostly voluntary, heck when in Rome no one knows where I'm from. Fine and dandy, people are most comfortable with what/who they know and sometimes...just want to keep it that way.
What says you to this Haitian/Brooklyn/New York/American/Soldier?

Michelle Obama is a member of Alpha Phi Omega National Service Fraternity, she was inducted as an advisor. That is the ONLY greek organization she is a member of as she refused the invitation extended by Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority to be a member. President Barack is not a member of any greek organization.

NWSO the only thing I can say is if you really want to know, talk to your black greek friends in a humble, non judgmental manner and you'll receive a lot of answers. I say black greek because white greeks are a completely different world. Unlike AA organizations, they stop at the college level and do not serve after they graduate. I say that confidently and with background knowledge being a member of both of a white greek organization and a black greek organization. Best of luck in your search for knowledge.

You spent more time researching vibrating ipods than black greek life smh....did you go to even one organization's national site? Or attempt to engage anyone in a serious sober conversation about greek life? If you haven't...that's probably why you haven't gotten clarification on any of these topics...you are indeed welcome to any opinion you wish to have, but if you want serious answers about these organizations that have without a single doubt shaped AA history then you might attempt to pose your questions in a more respectful manner.
Still love the blog

Re Michelle Obama: She was invited to join AKA as an honorary member in 2008 for their Centennial and accepted the invitation on a non-exclusive basis. I do not know if they allowed for the non-exclusivity or if she was ever actually inducted.

I think a major point that should be emphasized is that much of this discussion is based on perceptions and misperceptions of black greek life on an undergraduate level. It is a different experience for those who remain active or join on a graduate level. At that point you get away from a lot of the negative behavior that is associated with the organizations and focus more on the history, community service, proud tradition, etc.

I also didn't know much about greek life prior to college, aside from representations in pop culture, but I became interested as an undergrad, once I learned more. As much as I wanted to, I never pledged undergrad because I couldn't humble myself enough and allow others to mistreat me, esp when I didn't genuinely respect them. I also wondered - how could you be "sisters" after all that?? My desire to be a member never went away, so I eventually joined at the graduate level and had a very different, more sisterly and mature experience. Many of my line sisters had similar stories to mine about pursuing membership undergrad and felt that the grad level worked much better for them, esp given the reasons for their interest (i.e. not just popularity & friends).

@Lonias - It's not too late. You should look into grad chapters. Sisterhood is a beautiful thing.

My personal opinion: Researching Greek Life won't help anyone deal with the ignorance dome members of Greek Organizations display. I really think he's speaking in terms of the behavior of the two women and not Greek life and Greek Organizations collectively. At least that's how I read it.

Well I'm going to agree with MissBB on pretty much everything she said......

As a member of a Greek org and a graduate of an HBCU (the same one Spike Lee graduated from), I can let you know that being a member of a Greek Letter fraternity has been a great experience for me.

As far as Spike is concerned, he openly dislikes Greek organizations so the film is clearly biased. I am not an advocate for hazing or elitism, however the membership processes are designed to protect organizations (and not just Greek orgs) from individuals who would not take it seriously and uphold the purpose or the foundation of the organization. There are many people who would join to be a part of a clique or amongst the people they see as popular. People who get violent and do stupid/illegal stuff during their experience are apparently not that bright.

As far as the branding issue, that's something that I won't do because I agree with the parallel it draws with slavery. But at the same time, I don't see how that's much different from tattooing (also something that I will not do).

and @ Chriskjr .....

I agree with you wholeheartedly... but I would also add that many (if not all) traditionally black frats and sororities were formed because whites would not allow us to join theirs. That is part of the reason why members, especially the older ones, are so fiercely loyal. There are many fraternities and sororities that do hold to African (especially Egyptian and Nubian) traditions and history.

@Belle point taken. In this particular instance I think he was just trying to portray his own perceptions as opposed to writing an educated piece abt the merits of sorority life. I dont think there is anything wrong with that.

Even research is biased, because it then depends who you ask, if the pool is diverse enough etc...so we can then have a whole discussion abt that.

I think it is brave of him to take a stance even though they are now trying to lynch you for it nswo lol

@nwso I agree. The word 'gang' has a negative connotation, that's why you got all these ppl all upset lol

Back to a Belle in Brooklyn - my reader blinks *chuckles*

Keep doing the great work both of you!

x

palling around with terrorists was a sarah palin reference. i drew the connection between your post and her remarks to suggest that you both were using the same tactics, in this case priding yourself on limited knowledge of a complex topic and feigning insouciance while injecting caustic comments and snide insults ("eee-wing?" oh no he didnt!) as the primary approach to gaining public attention. kinda like no publicity is bad publicity. i respectfully disagree. so do my morals.

you haven't read belle's wonder years? im sure you know what you're missing. i wasnt suggesting that you weren't friends. ive been a part of both your bloglives for long enough to know that. i said that you were trying to win a traffic contest. i still stand by that, black weblog finalist. this view is further supported by the backpeddling you are doing in the comments section. a part of belle's strength and most of your posts (and why i feel so strongly about this one) is that you USUALLY believe what you are saying and the truth rings out. you were cheating on this post.

heard about em's viral a** from a friend. it has over 300K views. and people are buying it. glad you aren't one of them. and that excrement bit WAS hilarious! see? i like you when you're just you.

PS more park sausages mom, please?! by that i mean videos with commentary.

Dang, what the HELL? I have become acquainted with several blogs thanks to NWSO, A Belle in Brooklyn being but one. I actually have begun checking three other blogs on the regular because of Ans--and I say all of that to say brotha man is one of the most generous, open and embracing persons I have come across on the web. So, as a blogger, dude steps out on the limb time and time again. AND more likely than NOT, he projects thoughts and views others have, but serves them up as his OWN so that WE can discuss issues that might NEVER come up other-wise bcuz they're too controversial to even DISCUSS. WTF? So how about the Greeks SHOW the side where you're the bigger person and reflect kindness to any words or thoughts you COULD choose to deem ignorant, hateful or just uninformed? There are a lotta Greeks that are no longer on the active rolls bcuz they don't wanna pay them dues year in and out. Don't forget about the contribution of Masons. And Belle, how many Black ppl still belong to the NAACP, The Urban League, National Council of Negro Women, Operation Push? If you wanna talk about historical groups that have had major influences and impacts on the Black community--that list is long, but then, how are they doing today? I think the Greek community is big enuff to understand how there can be mis-understandings about their legacy, current value as well as their historical necessity. Give brotha Ans some props for generating discourse and perhaps tone down the rhetoric that could lead some to think there's a lotta HATE up in here.

@ Anonymous (directly above)
You go to FAMU? LOL

Let me point out something largely ignored here:

even when pledging was acceptable, HAZING was not.

Hazing is a specific CRIME in about half the states, and of course, assault, harassment, etc. are crimes every where.

The criticisms here are legitimate -- hazing, shallow elitism and separation are damaging; immature or weakly formed men and women join groups for the wrong reasons and may never develop themselves or the group they join and groups who take them in anyway need to own responsibility for diluting their membership and their organizational reputation.

This needs to be addressed but nevertheless it is all collateral to the mission and purpose of fraternities and sororities that seek to advance community, scholarship, service and other meaningful ideals.

There was a time when it was a bad play to ask about a greek organization if you wanted to be a member and that left a lot of confusion and misinformation out there. (that is our (greek's) fault. we are past that. If you really want to know, and you are not just interested in complaining -- ASK SOMEBODY.

NWSO I am completely puzzled by the women who were so angry at your (bad) greek jokes. That level of offense seems to reveal some insecurities on their part. (Although you would have annoyed me too and would not have gotten my number either lol)

I don't mind questions and I am happy to explain my choice and what it has meant to me but I don't feel the need to justify my membership in a sorority any more than I feel I must justify why I have a particular profession or belong to a particular church or political party.

I was completely uninterested in greek life when I started college (not @ a HBCU) so I understand the total lack of appeal for some people.

What I don't get is the venom against others who elect to belong to a legitimate social or professional group. Fraternities, the police, the military being compared to GANGS?! really? why on earth are these things being paralleled?

Greek or non-greek, alone or collectively what is the difference if you are about something? ( I see you aqua)

folks -- how did you meet your purpose? was being greek helpful or defining? was being non-reek meaningful or helpful? what about being in (or not in) other organizations?

Would the haters please sit down and the real men and women doing something meaningful with themselves please speak up?

I respect what Jewelofthecrowne had to say and the manner in which it was stated......Though this subject has generated lots of comments, I believe NWSO's all time high comment blog subject was the recent one on religion, then the one on being big boned.......Is this the point where we do the group hug? lmao....Just to stir the pot a lil mo b4 I go, let me say what ALL the fellas know, which is, despite what Ms BB said about there being other sororities....All the dudes know on the real: Delta's have the fiiinest azz mofo women around. I don't know what they doin in the community--but they LOOK GOOD doin WTF eva it is......AND that's 4Sho!!! <---smilin my azz offf.....

Uhhh, Jewel....Did you back hand insult me? lmao.... I'm already lookin good to Delta women...I got me one back at the crib but I might need to investigate the AKA's a little further. Actually, my sista and an aunt are AKA's..Hmm, maybe THAT's why AKA's get on my friggin nerves~ j/k.....nobody should lose any sleep ova anything you read on the internet.....
In all honesty, WE need all of ya, doin what you do!!

@ Dc Man with a Plan - I hear ya!

@ Miss. BB --thx for the rep, glad youre out there soror! -- My suit may be a neutral shade, but I'm Royal Blue and Pure White where it counts!

LAST comment..lol...for real:
My hat is off to all who have pledged, who have walked the line, accepted the duty and uphold the mystery of their respective Greek organization. We need each of you to continue a proud tradition of self determination, faith, allegiance and continued progress towards a better community and a more perfect union. You are a proud Black man, a proud Black woman and we need more of you....Continue to be blessed, just as you are a blessing to others.

Some schooling:
1. There is a difference between pledging and hazing... Yes, they both involve tasks that are meant to bring you down to build you up. But, hazing is the extreme often resulting in killing, wounding, etc. So, can you pledge and not be hit? Yes. Can you opt out of the process? Yes, thus is why a lot of people join grad chapters. Still don't understand... Well, look at life! You are born into a family and while growing up you learn life lessons. For example: Your mother/father says NWSO do not touch something or cross that street because XYZ will happen. Being young and curious, you go ahead and do it anyway. You get home and your mother/father tear that ass up.
Along with that…In your life you go through trials and tribulations (some of which are easy and hard), each time you are faced with a hard choice and fail a little of you is destroyed, but tomorrow you are a stronger wiser person because of it. This is what “pledging” is suppose to do for you. How can you be close to your big sister/bro for beating in order join an org? Reverse the question to yourself…Why is it that you still love your mom/dad/grandma/grandpa/or anyone else that took a belt or a hand to you backside? You might say well I love my parents, but love of a child to a parent is a learned behavior and hormonal (nature vs. nurture).
2. I am from NYC. I was not raised around greek life. And like you, I saw it only on TV Revenge of the Nerds, School Daze, etc. And, I just thought it looked like fun and games. When I left NY and went to an HBCU, I thought it was like joining a club and that maybe you can join all and not just one (Pan-Hel vs. Non Pan-Hel vs. White Greek letter orgs.). And, I found out through talking to me southern born friends that it was not so. I joined my sorority because I loved what they stand for and the things that have been accomplished in the 89 years of its existence.
I made the choice to join because of what I wanted to gain from it and what I can bring to the table. Yeah! I can do community service on my own, but it is better working as a group doing March for Babies, Breast Cancer walks, HIV/AIDS workshops, tutoring under privileged children, etc.
3. Branding and Stepping are something that is based on tradition. Branding is suppose to represent what members of African tribes do to symbolize coming of age or allegiance to their tribe…Just like tattoos! I personally do not like it and associate it with being an animal or slave. Stepping or party walking/strolling (well stepping) comes from Africa. It is used like someone stated above for a fundraiser.
I do not think I have lost myself in joining or did it to meet friends (I am not friends with a lot of my sorors). When I meet people, I do not discuss it or bring it up. Why? It is none of your business especially since most folks who are not members either do not understand and never wanted to join or wanted to join and was black listed. It takes too much to have folks understand what it is with traditions and purpose. Plus, people need to understand that folks looses themselves whenever they are trying to fit into a mold (i.e. the upper black middle class or the society where you find the LINKS or the Jack and Jill members)…and that is a whole new class in itself. You should read Our Kind of People, The Divine Nine, In Search of Sisterhood: Delta Sigma Theta, and there is another book about African American Greek life to get some sort of understanding. In addition, there are a lot of Greeks in the tri-state area. I am not talking people who go other places, join and come back…I am talking they become members in NYC and stay. And, there are a lot of West Indians, Asians, Latinos and Africans in these BGLO (Black Greek Letter Organizations) in NYC, so it an excuse...
I hope that I could answer some questions.

@ NSWO.....

Pledging generally involves things like learning and memorizing important facts, names, and dates in the orgs history, learning about the REAL purpose and cause of the founding members and learning the history and backgrounds of the chapter members that came before. The purpose is to further educate those aspiring to join on what they are doing and getting themselves into. I believe physical abuse does not make one a better man or woman and shouldn't be a part of the process. Things like running and working out however, prepare members for the previously mentioned step shows and other activities (Relay for life, AIDS/Cancer marches, etc.)

The dual purpose is to put potential member through something strenuous with the hopes that those wanting to join for the wrong reasons (being popular, or "cool" etc) will say something to the effect of "This ain't worth it" or "This ain't what I signed up for". That way when they become members and the REAL work begins (organizing community fund raisers, drives, events, volunteering etc) only the people that are truly dedicated and willing to work and uphold the PROPER traditions will remain. Unfortunately things don't always go the right way, but that's the how it should be.

And yes, there are academic standards imposed by the colleges and universities first (a certain GPA). Then most orgs will have a higher set of standards such as a higher GPA, sophomore status and recommendations from a professor or older member. And speaking for my org, there is a moral standard written into the original purpose or mission statement. However, that is a subjective thing and will vary among different organizations.

As far as the pranks, most of that is just intended as harmless fun. Of course there are times that it can and does get out of hand. Paddling is an older tradition. There was a time in the U.S. when hazing was perfectly legal and accepted. This is probably how those stereotype originated. It has been banned for some time in most orgs (that I'm aware of) and any org or chapter of an org that continues to do so risks being dismissed as members and loosing the chapter's charter, not to mention legal prosecution. That being said, older members of certain orgs that know that certain things no longer take place often give current members those "back in my day" stories. So perhaps current members feel like they may need to live up to those standards? I dunno...

but i'm getting pretty long here.... anything else you wanna know I'd have to pledge you first LOL... jokes jokes

WHO ELSE AGREES???

P.S. No one in my chapter was ever hazed, we were too busy keeping up our GPA to maintain our scholarships!!

I see alot of your "Issues" from my view are based on assumption, #1. No frat that im aware of "requires" a brand, been a nupe for over 10yrs NO BRANDS or TATTS, #2. From the outside looking in its easy to think you see/know all the in's and outs, and thats not fair, because its NEVER what it seems to outsiders #3. Hazing, paddling, branding are all CHOICES, if for you the benefits out way the "wood" then you do it, if your scared of the "wood" you go grad chapter but its still america and you always have a choice!!! Now, with that said ive surely seen the negative impact of pledging it takes a strong sense of character to not get sucked in(partying, drinking, groupies etc.) ive seen 4.0 students stay in school 8yrs b4 they graduate literally! And other crazy stories but its no different than any other college student gaining a new found freeedom and kicking it alittle to tough forgetting the very reason your in college in the first place TO GET AN EDUCATION!!!!!<------------ -MESSAGE to any youngsters headed to college in the fall!!!!!

Can somebody please just address why the hell Black people (of African descent) want to be a part of organizations bearing Greek names as opposed to starting ones based off of Indigenous African names (ie Kemetic names). That part has always bothered me from the jump before even getting into the other politics, habits, and shortcomings that may exist.

proud member of broke phi broke!

I kid. not part of a sorority. I have no problem with black people becoming greeks but the hazing, childish behavior, I don't really understand. I would hope that the pledging is harmless and meant to show your strengths but that's not the case all the time. to each her own

First let me say, I did not read the entire blog because I got infuriated by the first few lines. As a member of Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Inc, I am totally offended that anyone would compare my or any other greek organization to a gang. DST is sisterhood, founded on the principles of COMMUNITY SERVICE--having distinct programs to promote and improve health, political, economic, international and physical/mental awareness. Hazing is illegal. Anyone who performs or allows themselves to be a part of such rituals is crazy. Does in exist, yes. However, I was never hazed and love my DST!

Black Sororities and Fraternities were built on foundations of men and woman who decided to unify to make OUR world better. To compare us to gangs is a slap in the face to our race and to all those who fought hard for rights and liberties that we now enjoy.

See everyone cannot be a DST. You have to have the complete package, academic and social achievement. So those who don't just can't understand! We believe Intelligence is the tourch of Wisdom!

Wish I had longer to write, but I'm on my way to Church to join my Sorors for a back to school event--Community Service. We will take photos that we will proudly throuw up the DST sign to let everyone know we are proudly a part of thr Delta Trailblazers

Going back to the original title, why are men (some men not all) intimidated by women who have strong bonds with other independent women? isn’t that really their problem and not a problem of greek life?

a member of my sorority attended a conference with her husband, who was presenter at a workshop. He introduced himself as so-and-so's husband. it got laughs and jokes later about how he was whipped, etc. but anyone who read his bio knew that he is a successful surgeon who has developed surgical techniques and patented surgical technology. he's not whipped, he's just strong enough to realize that it was his wife's moment and her venue and he acknowledged it. what's wrong with that?

I think that this post is making sweeping generalizations about people who become Greek and why they choose to do it. I'm an undergrad now and many of my friends from high school have crossed, including two of my best friends, ALL of whom are from NYC and Caribbean descent. With the exception of maybe one or two, all of them pledged at PWIs. It's not about colors, elitism, conformity, or even sado-masochism, it's about joining an organization that you believe in. One of the most important things that these organizations emphasize is HISTORY. Not to "persuade" you to be "flyy like them," but to help you understand that you are contributing to a LEGACY of excellence and dedicating your life to it. Not because its the "cool thing to do," but its because its something you truly believe in and support. All of my friends are just as amazing as I remember them to be. They are STILL the same people that I know and love, their love for their sisters/brothers doesn't trump their love for me, and vice versa.

Also, the chapter that someone chooses to become part of makes a huge difference in the type of person they are in the first place. The people make the organization, not the other way around. If you see/experience hazing or other behaviors that you believe to be wrong, you still have the option to NOT JOIN. One chapter does not classify the entire organization.

@ 1_Putt_Bill

"can a supposedly good tree produce so much bad fruit?" cant we ask that about anything? the black community? religion? America?

sorry, but that's the sort of one-size-fits-all prejudicial judgment that really adds no value to any discourse.

further as an inactive member, you don't sound like you own any responsibility for the "baggage" that you (yes, you) left behind. That sounds a little hit and run to me, particularly if you needed inspiration to return to service and meaningful relationships. glad you're motivated now though.

@ undressingHER

I have been a financial and active member of a sorority for 17 years and I have NEVER paid that level of dues.

That is one feature of greekdom that does vary widely between organizations, areas of the country and chapters.

I do know people in my city who do pay substantially more dues than I do, but I also know people who are supporting greek houses, and other capital investments that my chapter does not so this in part explains the difference in fees.

Even within my organization, some chapters heavily fund raise, others collect the funds from members and that also creates radical differences in dues at the local level.

Although I am a graduate of a HBCU .... I have always thought that myself!! Hilarious!

The ONLY difference between Greeks and Gangs is social acceptance. The problem is that it’s taboo to talk down on greeks as they are EVERYWHERE. The sheer number of greeks being interviewed even in this piece is astounding. The similarities of the groups are, however, the same:

Hand signs exclusive to group – CHECK
Colors exclusive to group – CHECK
Lifetime members – CHECK (in black Greek organization)
Symbols – CHECK
Secret Handshakes – CHECK
Initiation (violent and non-violent) – CHECK
Branding - CHECK

CHECK. CHECK. CHECK. Now, if we could get gangs to do community service without it being court ordered, they’d be identical. Only a warped society would see these groups as distinct because they are not. The difference is that one is SOCIALLY ACCEPTABLE.

Also, Greeks on campus tend to attract those looking to be "accepted" (more popular, better connected, because X did it where X could equal elite aunt, mother, brother, friend). Gangs prey on those looking for "family"). The similarities (if people would WAKE UP) cannot be denied.

Before you bark on me, I went through the process of joining but opted out on my own, and my sister is greek. It was something that set bad with me at the thought of my greek "sistahs" kicking my ass and asking me to take out their trash. Years later I don't regret my choice at all.

Here's the problem in a nutshell you have a bunch of low self esteem teenagers coming from high school looking for a place to belong. They don't realize that they were already created for greatness without the beatings, branding and complete and utter foolishness that comes along with the greek brandwashing! These young girls are willing to screw guys and bow down to peers not much older or accomplished than they are might I add. They are programed to believe that they are more "elite" then the rest because they wear certain colors, letters and hang out with what they believe are the "popular" on campus. The guys are just the same if you become a "greek" you get the panties and the popularity. Don't feed me that bull about you doing to make a difference or a positive influence because everyone has the power to do that without this foolishness. This is why they get so offended so fast. Because they clearly still have confidence and self-esteem issues! A confident person wouldn't care squat about what you said about them or how you felt. Simple. Teenagers looking for a group they can belong too and these groups accomodate them. I'm married to a former Kappa yes I said former. There is a thing called consecration! Look it up ladies and gents who are offended! This was the case! Each group has there own personal stereotype. Pretty boys, dogs whatever! The pretty on they left girls and the others. HEAR THIS: Do you know who you are? Do you know WHOSE you are? Do you know who created you? Do you know your purpose? Answer these correctly then you will find yourself!

When the Rapture happens wear your greek letters and see what happens! And one commentor had the nerve to tie this with FAITH and blessings and even used a scripture "many are called but few or chosen" how dare you! This reference was intended for Followers of Christ not followers of false (little g) gods! Stop the madness! I am a true Apologist and will defend my faith until the end. You stay in your cult and have your beliefs whatever but do not quote scripture or tie Christ into this non-christian activity. Know your greekology and serve your god there is nothing Christian about this at all. There is nothing secretive about Christ, he was bruised for our iniquities and the chastisement he went through was so we WOULDN;T HAVE to be whipped! You are already apart of an ELITE in case you had no idea! When you join a cult others are called outsideres and "nons" but even if you're not a Christian you are still loved by God. HOWEVER if you openly serve, worship and uphold non-Christian values then you are an enemy to God. James 4:4 "You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God."

Interesting.
I'm actually conducting a research on Sororities/Fraternities from an outsiders perspective.. This blog has a lot of good feedback from members and nonmembers..

Then again, I believe that our Canadian Greek organizations differ from the American ones.. In Canada hazing is forbidden, among other things...