#05 Independence Day (Regrets About Your Rape)

I was with you and feeling thankful that you as a man would bring attention to something so many people believe is a woman's problem and then I read, "but Lisa was no angel."

Ultimately rape is about unconsensual sex. Meaning, someone did not GIVE PERMISSION for intercourse. Case in point, a drunk person can't give permission. (Or one can't trust acquiesence from an individual whose judgment is dulled by drugs or alcohol [or sleep].)

I'm not going to go into your girl's behavior, explore the multitude of ways people respond to trauma, or discuss how pervasive rape is WITHIN a relationship. All I have to say is no one--no prostitute, no ho, no crack head, no half-naked woman--deserves to be raped. Everyone should have the opportunity to opt out.

And her willingness to press charges is fairly common especially in acquaintance rape. Personal share: when I remembered being molested by my ucle my main concern was how is wife was going to feel. Another personal share: My girlfriend didn't want to tell her mother what happened at a slumber party cause she didn't want her to get "mad."

I can go on for quite some time on this topic, but won't. I will reiterate my disappointment at you blaming the thrice-victim. I'm not a fool; I realize there's a culture around gender oppression and know that there are things woman need to do keep themselves safe. But the reality is it's not fair and women should not have to fight for their no to mean no all the fuckin time. It's get tiring.

first, this is horrible that this has happened to her not once, not twice but three times! hopefully there was not a fourth.
i haven't known a peer that was raped as far as i know of but i do know women who have been raped. i have also known dudes who when they described episodes with women and all i could say after was "um dude, that is really really not cool. don't ever do that again," cause the situations could have been considered rape-least how i heard it.

but what do we do when we hear this? Ans i heard you ask the right question, did you take a shower. she did. uh oh. evidence gone. pressing charges yeah, shaky past but that NEVER means it wasn't rape does it? if anything-and this sounds bad- it means she KNOWS when its consentual and when its not.
im playing the fence because i hear what it was and see how it looks. its fucked up like the child support system but what you can do, you did. you were there for her. hopefully whatever was getting her in these situations has changed. hopefully she is a better person. hopefully she is doing well both mentally and physically but it seems like you haven't talked to her in a while and this demon is haunting you.
reach out and catch back up-for better or worse man...

b

Between the ages of 7 and 27 I was raped or sexually assaulted 7 times. There were all sorts of situations involved and I don't even count grey area encounters where my former passivity and compliance meant that I felt obliged not to say no in a few situations that had gotten too far out of hand and where even though I did not say no (I didn't know how to yet) I had certainly not said yes.

I recognized myself as a good victim in my teens and some college-era grey area sex not counted thought I had "rape-proofed" myself by the time I was 20, with a complex system of rules that governed all interactions with men and because as my mother said I dressed, "like a sister in the Nation," by extension the whole world when I was raped in my home by a man who I was in a relationship with.

I am in my 40s now and am certainly much more cautious (some say paranoid) than many of my friends with men at the early stages of any relationship and more compliant sexually and otherwise deeper into relationships. Some rules have relaxed and I am not always excessively modest in my dress but simply writing this points out to me that I may not have escaped this past so much as adapted to it...

There are a lot of horrid things that happens in this world on a daily basis and rape is one of the more common acts perpetrated. Rape is a form of terror used to intimidate and punish mostly women and even men.

Your friend Lisa is on the long list of women who have been victimized by men and a society which still tolerates rape and rapist. The only advice I can offer is that you cannot continue to blame yourself because you were not the reason she was raped and especially in cases of acquaintance rape it is very difficult to protect anyone.

Additionally, continue to support Lisa but be aware that she has some responsibility to protect herself and to be aware. I am a man but in the past whenever I chose to get f'ed up partying I was always certain I was with friends and someone was there to ensure I got home safely.

I think women should be doubly vigilant. It is a message I send to my female friends, sisters and nieces repeatedly.

@ NWSO: It is a blessing that you have the courage and wisdom to discuss what many will find an uncomfortable subject. Hopefully, what you have shared will be kept in perspective and will not result in the Blame game. We all know Rape IS a crime. You are not a criminal for sharing this personal, heart riveting story that is the catalyst for US dealing with this "issue" today. I pray you continue to find inner peace and continue to enjoy a blessed life.

@mamacotten

I agree with the statements about the lack of self love has created a pattern of self destruction for some young women who have been raped.

@NWSO

Reading this tale has me thinking that there is a missing piece of information. There is a cause and effect, especially in human behavior. There can be more than one factor but somewhere along there the final straw that broke the camel's back is what caused your friend's descent into her "rebellious years." Your friend needs counseling. Talking to an impartial party helps bring perspective.

Francine has a point by Lisa being the common factor, but she wants to make Lisa the problem. When she isn't. She wants to make Lisa's repeated assaults her own fault, and thats wrong. Anyone that hasn't been sexually assaulted doesn't have an inkling of the turmoil and mental anguish that it causes. And there is no way for them to understand. It's like trying to make a man understand how Childbirth feels.

All I can say is that even if she was a perfect angel before her first assault; Afterwards she would possibly put herself in more compromising positions due to the drastic change in her self worth.

I would only say to you about your guilt, is to get over it. It may sound harsh, but your friend is already beating herself up way more than you because she put herself in that position; for trusting a man she barely knew, she already feels like its her fault. How can you help her get her misplaced guilt when you have trouble dealing with yours?

@ Division

Oh please! I am tired of these people who have never been raped talking about persecuting the offender. You guys make it sound like its so easy. Like all you have to do is stand up and say what happened. I am very disgusted with your way of thinking. We are selfish? For not protecting other innocent people?

That's the wrong reason for her to press charges. This is a very personal crime and so the reason for women to come forward should always be personal. Rape make you feel degrade but worst off you feel powerless, because you couldn't stop that person.

The real reason rape victims should come forward because it gives us closure to confront our assailant. We know longer sit in our rooms thinking about everything that lead up to the most pivotal moment in our life. And how much of a downward spiral we have gone on since then. And It gives us a sense of empowerment to be able to tell him, that what he did was wrong. Because it takes an enormous amount of strength to do that, and nothing prepares you for it. Nothing. But with support, the victim can endure.

P.S
You were too insensitive to your Ex's plight and thats probably why she dumped your butt.

I have a friend that was raped by the boyfriend of her child's grandmother (not her mother) and his friend. She did not say anything to myself or our other best friend for months but we knew something was wrong. She refused to press charges or even talk about it and it has been 5 years since it happened. I don't think that she is being selfish by not talking..... I think she is still feeling the effects of it and can't face it. She hasn't dated since it happened and it will probably be awhile before she starts....

Division-

I'd heard the POV that you've expressed also expressed by many others. The problem is that the reasoning fails. A woman that takes her rapist to court is not "keeping a rapist off of the streets", or "protecting other women from the same fate". The rate of conviction for rape is low, especially if it is acquaintance/date rape where there was no bruising on the woman. Even when convicted of rape the sentencing is often for 6 years or less.

I am not suggesting that the evidentiary standards for determining rape should be decreased or that men convicted of rape should be sentenced to longer prison sentences.

All, I am saying is that IF the victim is able to secure a conviction, the guy is likely to only do 6 or so years in prison. Its not as if a rape conviction puts a man away forever, or if the man will be castrated.... so how will she be "protecting the next woman from rape"? The man will still be young enough to come out of prison and rape again.

Date rape often happens in ones late teens/early twenties. A man that rapes his "date" can be out of prison before he is 25 years old. Huge amount of "protection" there for every other woman!!!

Additionally, a woman might decide that it is a waste of her time to spend a year getting the guy prosecuted when he'll be released from prison before she is half-way through grad school.

First off I truly feel that no one deserves to get raped, molested, assaulted, whatever the case may be. I know a few "Lisa's" women who have on several occasions found themselves in these type of situations,and none of them reported it, and it wasnt their fault, the were just trying to have a good time like everybody else. so I also disagree with fracine's statement, about Lisa being the commom factor. It has nothing to do with the individual, a person should be able to go and have a good time anywhere or way, that they are pleased, and not have to worry about getting raped, no matter what her past is, or how much she's labeled a freak. Thats why a lot of women dont report being raped, simply because of that statement Francine made, "Its your fault". they are already thinking that its their fault, or they shouldnt have been there, or they shouldnt have went over to his place, or shouldnt have smoked or drink that. Another reason is because a lot of times, when they report it, nothing ever happens, and yes that is a very long investigation process, usually making the victim look guilty, and no one wants to hear that.

To answer the question about ditching a friend, no I was pretty much the friend that you could always count on to be down for just about anything(yeah, that guy) like you with that homework situation, I probably would have chose the BBQ, even if I only stayed for a little while. Although it wasnt your fault that it happened, the outcome of Lisa's night probably would have been different

Before everybody jumps down Division throat. Think about all the people who where raped by a repeat offender. Lisa attacker may have done this before. And some poor lady could have sent him to jail. And there's no telling if "That Guy" have done it since Lisa.

I have never been raped or had to deal with a rape victim so I wouldnt call one names. But I do think they not only owe it to themselves but all women. If their situation could have been avoided and their innocence saved Im sure they would have wanted them to speak up.

@ Single23, you have a lot of anger and emotion tied to this discussion but you're venting at ppl courageous enuff to state their view, their opinion. Had they never voiced their opinion, but quietly held to the same beliefs and thoughts--would you be able to enlighten or otherwise convince others that there is more to the issue than they may be aware of? Do you think "sharing" in the manner you have is winning any converts--or are ppl tuning you out all the more-so? The point of dialogue, especially on a blog that does not belong to you nor I, is to have discourse, which provides an opportunity to share information in a way that is compelling and makes ppl say: Hmmm, there is a point of view I had not fully considered, or at a minimum, it can cause ppl to re-think and reconsider their opinion and views. It happens all the time, but when someone comes at you with anger in an open, public forum.....everyone typically goes away just as they came and a chance to teach has been lost. It matters not whether or not I care for how you spoke, you weren't speaking to me, but the point I was making was to respect the blog owner and WHAT he's trying to do for 30 days, something you seem adverse to even considering.

@Ladies

Think if black leaders just said standing up to oppression was too hard and didnt do it? We might still be slaves or second class citizens with little to no rights. Doing the right thing usually is hard ,but protending it never happened doesnt fix anything.

daThrone
everyone is not in a position to prosecute crimes against them. Again, even if the victim goes ahead with prosecution, conviction is relatively rare. You wounld'nt want a woman to be able to have you incarcerated just on her word with no evidence, would you? This is the problem with accusations of date/acquaintance rape. And again, even if convicted, the man will not spend much time in jail-- even if the rape was forcible involving weapons against youngish girls.

Besides, how does a 19 year old woman spending a year of her life getting the man cionvicted benefit other women, when the man will be released before she turns 25? How will this save other women's "innocence"?

Sometimes women cannot even identify their attackers, especially if they were drunk or high at the time.

For the record, Single23, I didn't like what Division said or the way in which he said it, however, your ending comment was so unnecessary and such a low blow I could not let it pass..Regardless, I wish you good health, prosperity and peace of mind.

@ DC Man
I don't usually explain myself. But since you wrote THREE separate replies to me, I feel obligated to respond.
1. my statement wasn't directed at anyone but Division and like minded ppl (but if you're like minded then I can see why it would hit a nerve with you)
2. my last statement was said with a purpose. Insensitive ppl are not going to be made aware of their insensitivity towards others with sensitivity. (that's B/c they are insensitive).
3. I have found that anger is a useful tool to get ppl's attention when it isn't overdone (and it worked, it got yours and everyone else attention, I only hope that it got Division's). Emotions, not just anger, lets ppl know how serious you are about any given topic.
4. I am not angry about the subject. I am angry with Division for his comments. I don't condone what he said or how he said it. Isn't the saying "to be silent, is to agree"? I wanted to make sure what I said was driven home.

@ Knappy
I am not saying rape survivors shouldn't come forward and press charges. Quite contrary, they should come forward for all the reasons I stated in my response to Division. But, the last thing they need is to be pushed into it. It is too soon after their being forced to have sex, for them to not feel like you're trying to force them to do something against their will, the same way their attacker did. They need to feel strong and in control of their own lives. So it is up to the ppl that are supporting them through this dilemma, to give them strength without being pushy. But don't treat them like they are made of glass either. You have to find the balance.

@ Throne

True. The problem is that most people don't tell ANYONE they have been raped until its too late to be proved. Depending on your age, you've probably set through a few date rape and drug prevention classes in high school. The speaker talks about what constitutes rape, what kind of drugs are used for date rape, what to do if you get raped. So most people know what to do if they get raped. But still nothing prepares you for how you will feel if you get raped.

Also many women do not realize that they were raped until long after. I'm not talking about people in comas, or amnesia. Sometimes the lines are so blurry, especially in date/acquaintance rape situations that women only after reflection realize that they did not consent to the activity.

Additionally, some women are involved in acts that they do not want revealed even at the cost of keeping the rape concealed. If after committing a crime a woman gets raped by her co-conspirator/criminal partner she is not going to want to report the rape and get in trouble for her other activities. Drug dealers do not go to cops and report that stick-up kids took their drugs. That was an exteme example, but to a lesser degree when a teenage girl sneaks out out of the house to go to a party and then gets raped at that party she might not want her parents to know that she snuck out. Or a woman who goes to a dealers house to buy drugs and then gets raped there knows that if she reports it everyone will know that she is an addict.

A woman might not want her family and friends to treat her like she is fragile. She might have rebounded from the rape in her own way, but does not expect loved ones to treat her how they treated her before the rape and as a result is hesitatant to even tell loved ones.

I am 27 yr South African , and growing up rape was just always on my mind. I had heard too many stories of so and so being raped by the dude down the street or whomever in their school/neighbourhood.

By the time i finsihed high school 2 of my friends had been raped by people they knew. Both of them were actually raped by their ex boyfriends- and long after they had broken up. Well the 1 was raped by the ex and his friend. Heart breaking for them to tell, and for us to listen!

I'm sorry for your friend Lisa, tragic thing which has happened to her. I hear what Francine is saying, but it's easier said than done. We all have different upbringings, these influence who we turn out to be as adults. Some need to fall a couple more times to learn whatever lesson they need to. Your friend Lisa needs to learn how to love and take care of herself.

But i have to say I take exception to yr comment about her having slept with everyone at the party. She could have had 50 lovers by the time i was 20, but that doesn't mean she gives up her right to say who and when.

Rape will continue as long as society doesn't shift it's conscienceness regarding rape.