Do All Black Men Want White Women? (Tiger’s Jungle Fever)

0 Posted by - December 22, 2009 - Dear NWSO, Entertainment & Celebrities

White Vixen

Week before last, I finally buckled under the pressure and wrote a blog about Tiger Woods. I don’t know about y’all, but I’m tired of waking up to more “shocking scandal” about the former all-American golfer. Yet, like a train wreck, I sometimes find myself unable to look away.

Still, my plan was to walk away from the topic for the foreseeable future, but then I received an email from one of my new readers.

Hey, NWSO, I stumbled upon a status update on FaceBook yesterday that read: ‘FRIEND’S NAME is disappointed at the way the media, golfers, and random people are approaching Tiger Wood’s situation.’

I had thoughts but none were definitive enough to add my two cents, so I said nothing. I shrugged my shoulders and carried on with my own business. During my digression from my finals work, I stumbled upon a Tiger Woods article where someone’s response surprisingly moved me; I usually eschew this type of rhetoric altogether for fear of becoming the “angry Black woman.” I gave her a chance, though, and I’m glad I did. Here’s what she wrote:

“Whenever a professional man, Black or White falls, no Black woman is ever behind it but whenever a professional Black man falls, check out who is normally behind it. Always White women.

Look what marrying one did to O.J.—jail. Look how sex with one for one night told lies on Kobe and almost sent him to jail. [NFL player] Steve McNair never lived to tell his tales because she wiped out his tail. Now who was swinging the famous golf club that has put Tiger’s life that his Black dad built in this mess? A White woman who Tiger gave a life, a name and face. Tell me that his dad is not turning in his grave to see his son give up what made him for a White woman?

Lionel Richie cheated on his Black wife with a White woman and married her. He had to give up his career because of her jealous insecurities. He was miserable and went back to what made him—singing. She left him because she could not stand what she did to a Black woman happening to her.

Elin cheated with Tiger on his ex so it is karma. White women are aggressive ‘knicker swingers’ and controlling! Was anyone crying poor Mrs. McNair? Nope! The Kardashians will be doing a take two—more idiots down soon. NFL player [Richard] Jefferson from the Nets made the wisest decision of his life. So did Will Smith, Denzel, Obama, Sam Jackson and few others.”

I didn’t care much for the comment until the commenter wrote: “Was anyone crying poor Mrs. McNair? Nope!” It made me think about Michael Jordan’s wife, and even Shaq’s wife (Okay, so Shaq doesn’t have a squeaky clean image but you get my drift). Does anyone cry for Black women? The only concrete thing that came to my mind was: Could it be that this whole Tiger Woods media tirade is because he cheated on a **insert dramatic pause** White woman? It’s like, How dare Tiger cheat on an educated White woman?!!!

Sorry this is so long but I had to share with someone I thought could actually deliver some type of meaningful insight.

Oh, boy, where do I begin?

I kind of see what the commenter was trying to say, but I feel like she was way off base with her initial argument. First, the claim that every tragedy to befall successful Black men is the fault of White women is preposterous. I have two words to dead that argument—Robin Givens.

I don’t know the sister personally or the dynamics of her bedroom, but I’ll be damned if Robin didn’t appear that she ran Mike Tyson through the wringer. Sure he had/has a whole bunch of personal issues that can’t be blamed solely on Robin, but it didn’t look like this Black woman helped raise him up.

Secondly, maybe I’m just overly sensitive but the whole marrying “one” reeks of a racist undertone to me. Actually O.J.’s incarceration had nothing to do with his marriage to Nicole Brown-Simpson or her murder (I won’t even get into the if he did it conundrum), he went to jail for stealing football memorabilia years after his former White wife had passed. Sure, some could argue it was payback for him getting acquitted for Nicole’s murder, but that’s a very weak argument.

As for Kobe, he wanted to do it in the butt with a sidepiece that just happened to be White. Shoot, you don’t think if a 6’6” basketball player tried to ram it up your rear uninvited a Black woman wouldn’t rat him out because of some unspoken cultural bond? GTFOH!

Steve McNair just happened to be dealing with a psycho chick that shot him in his sleep, I doubt her skin color had anything to do with her mental state and whatever lies he was feeding her. Besides that, the chick’s name was Sahel Kazemi, which sounds more Middle Eastern than “White” to me. (I tried to confirm her ethnicity but got tired of devoting energy to uncovering something that in the end won’t really matter because they’re both dead).

In regards to the “point” about Tiger; once again, I see no merit as to what race has to do with Elin swinging a club at her cheating husband. In case you missed it, the man has over a dozen mistresses; I think a Black woman, or any woman for that matter, would swing a lot more than a gulf club at his head. Also, if I’m not mistaken, Elin actually had a modeling career before getting with Tiger, so not is sure that he gave her a “life, name and face.” And last I checked, (Okay, I didn’t check) Tiger’s father was alive and kicking so I doubt he’s doing any rolling around in graves any time soon. Not to mention Tiger’s pops is an African American/Native American/Chinese man that married a Thai/Dutch/Chinese woman, so I doubt he’d be that upset about his son getting with a White woman.

SMH

I won’t even waste any more time poking holes in the comment, but I will say this: Yes, we (Americans) live in a society that revolves around race; but damn, does everything have to be about Black and White?

Yeah, Tiger cheated and all of the women were Caucasian, but would things be drastically different if there were a few, or all, chocolate bunnies in the mix? I doubt it. He’d still be an undiagnosed sex addict (seriously, it sounds like dude is a sexaholic) that stepped out on his wife. I don’t see how the skin color of the women changes anything, like if he was being a whore with Black women that would make things better.

Pffft!

Seriously, people, race is only as big as you make it. With that said, the reader who pulled this quote does did raise an interesting point in that the media probably wouldn’t be in such an uproar if the powerful Black man wasn’t “ruining” a precious White woman. Throughout American history, White women have traditionally been put up on a pedestal, while Black women were pushed to the side—only to be secretly lusted after in the shadows.

I have no problem with the idea of Black love, just like I have no problem with White, Yellow, Green love. I don’t care if the world’s greatest golfer or Tyrone from down the block fell in love with a White woman or not—truthfully, it’s none of my business—as long as they honor each other and their vows I’m with it. The problem here is Tiger did none of that.

What did you think about the quote the reader pulled and the views expressed in it? Do you think that every time a Black man goes down it’s the fault of a White woman? Do you feel that some Black women always want to blame their man troubles on women of different races? Ladies, do you take it as a personal insult when a successful Black man marries/dates outside the race? Why? Do some of you really feel that Black men view White women as the ultimate trophy and the sisters are consolation prizes? Why do you think American culture is so focused on race? At the end of the day, shouldn’t people be more outraged about Tiger’s cheating than by the color of the women he cheated with and married?

Speak your piece…

BONUS:
Fellow blogger ABelleInBrooklyn did a similar post just yesterday.

white_tiger

  • http://www.mauricegarland.com Maurice Garland

    a wise (drunk, shit talkin friend) man told me theres three things black men cant get away with in this country…

    Killing white women (O.J.)
    Making white women cry (Kanye)
    And fooling white people (Tiger)

  • mizze

    I think that the reader had some points- it does seem that blk men who are in the limelight and got caught straying in the limelight was behind a white woman..thats just the way it played out. But I dont think that this is true for EVERY situation. Some people feel that just because some of the biggest names in the light are dating white women- ALL of them are dating white women. And that is just not true!!

    I do feel that a lot of blk women tend to blame not findin a good man on other races- but the thing is they feel that the only good mann is a black man.. that is their own fault for limiting themselves to only one race. Where in the bible did god say he created a multitude of races just for them to be secluded to themselves!?!??!?! I have no problem dating outside my race because I love MEN and good men come in all shades, races and skin tones.

    I take it personal when athletes or famous men date only white women ONLY if they started dating white women when they got big!! I mean, at the end of the day, you are attracted to who you are attracted to because NO black woman comes down on a white man that only dates black women- that aint right. that is hypocriticial. At the end of the day, I am me- I can only worry about things going on in my life and what I feel is best for me…and i feel that everyone has the god given right to do what they like for them. Tiger is tiger- we ALL knew he liked white women so what was the big shock?? I would have been more surprised if he was hookin up with TeNiqua from the southside..

  • EmotionalFUnk

    Every time a black man goes down it is not a white women fault. Some back women do seem to want to blame white chicks for every thing. They need to get over it I think and no I don’t feel insulted when a black man dated/marries a non black. As a matter of fact they guy I’m dating hasn’t dated a black women in years until me and it sure doesn’t bother me at all. At least I know I’m not dealing with some racist bigot who has to blame the white man/woman for everything and actually knows how and does judge people on an individual basis rather than the color of their skin.

    I’ve got no problem with black love either however I happen to think that is the dumbest term ever. forget black love…I’m just down with love.

    As far as being outraged with Tiger Woods cheating I’m not. I could care less its not as if he’s any relation to me. Just as he could care less as to what I do too.

    I do think American culture is so obsessed with race (black and white specifically) because of slavery and our trials and constant struggle here but someone else’s past is not my past so I don’t see why so many of us blacks have to adopt what happened to someone else in the past and make it our own pain just because we are the same color. That is just mentally unhealthy. I say not only let it go but don’t pick it up!

    • DION

      I THINK WHITE WOMEN TERAT AFRICAN AMERICAN MEN BETTER THAT BLACKWOMEN DO, AND WE LOVE THAT…….I ONLY DATE WHITE WOMEN BECAUSE MAN THEY MAKE YOU FEEL LIKE A SUPERSTAR….BLACK WOMEN HAVE TOO MUCH DRAMA WITH THEM GEEZ TOO MUCH AND TOO MANY KIDS………….

      • QuoteMan

        Dude, that line of thinking is weak – very weak.

      • Jfelix2

        dude you are a piece of shit. i guess you would say that to your mother that raised. liking white women just because of that is discrediting your own. you piece of shit, i guess your mother is a tool and something you look down on too hey? didn’t think of it like that.

      • Pinklady30

        Your an idiot!! This is why some black women feel the way they do because there are dumbass black men like you that say stupid things like this!! A women of any race is going to treat a man of any race right if he deserves it and is a REAL MAN. You shouldn’t need a women to make you “feel” like a man if you were one. Your a self hating boy who doesn’t know any better and let color-struck ignorance hit him upside the head becoming dizzy with white “stars” I feel sorry for ANY women who actually chooses to be with you. I’m just saying. And btw I’m a Irish/Italian women. Go figure.

  • N2Deep

    I don’t believe I could fall for a white woman myself, but the more I think about this subject I can see why some end up with them. I believe we get fooled by their actions.

    There are more white woman who are extremely submissive to their husbands than black women. Black woman are strong and demand respect as well as equality and independence. This is how our young black women are taught and raised. There is nothing wrong with that until this black man makes it to the “Professional” level where his total concentration and effort is for his job. Anything extra in his relationship can take away from his work and that could make him lose what he has worked for.

    In one hand you have this beautiful black woman who is naturally demanding and competitive for your time and respect. Her time is hers and the sex depends on what she feels like. Most black women want to be treated as equal rather than be submissive.

    In the other hand you have this white woman who is submissive and does what she needs to do to keep this man happy. Sex on demand, food prepared, doing whatever to keep stress away. They are looking for respect through their man not really just on their own. Some have kids some don’t but they are taught that if you marry a man that takes care of you then you take care of him. Be submissive and stack your money. If he messes up bad enough he has to pay because you are dependent.

    This is just my observation. Please think about it cause I’m not saying it’s right but I have dated all black women. My relationships varied but sometimes the women were too independent or not wanting to be lead. That kept us from going far because trying to compromise all the time is hard.

    I slept with two white women in my life. The reason it ended up being two is because the one I was sleeping with was having her monthly, so she brought a friend to take care of me! That was many years back but just something I don’t think too many black women would do.

    I truly believe Tigers wife knew a lot but said if it got out that she’s getting out. You are the most famous guy in the world but you just freely leave yourself out like that!!! I Don’t think so

  • N2Deep

    Just wanted to add that my statement above doesn’t apply to every situation. There are some black women that are happy to be submissive in their relationships and still be strong and respected.

  • anonymous

    I think this blog missed the point entirely. The point of the initial email was to bring attention to the media’s fascination with Successful, Famous, Professional Black men who cheat on women outside of their race. THIS IS NOT ABOUT TIGER!!! WHO CARES ABOUT TIGER? I DON’T!

    The media devotes a disproportionate amount of attention on Black men who cheat on women of other races. I would go as far to say that it is intended to deter women of other races from dating them. Can one person please site a situation similar to Tiger’s where the celebrities wife was black?

    This is clearly a race issue—In no way do I believe that everything else is. Maybe I should have said that first. I’m disappointed that we are underming the role that race assumes within our society. Race is a determinant of many factors: stress, hypertension, abortion, unemployment, incarceration, and now HIV/AIDS for young black women. We don’t have to have a chip on our shoulder but we certainly don’t need to be naive. It doesn’t help.

    Thanks again NWSO for the post.

    Blessings

  • anonymous

    Also….Can anyone identify any of Eric Benet’s mistresses? Shaq? If so, you likely learned about it from a black media outlet. Somehow…we know the names, professions, physical characteristics, and ages of Tiger’s mistresses. We don’t have this data on famous black men who have cheated on famous black women. In fact when McNair died the emphasis was placed on his mistress not on his wife.

  • AmakaCamille

    just in terms of fact checking: Tiger Woods father died in 2006 from cancer. & Elin was a NANNY, definitely was not a “working” model.

    And “Anonymous’ is right. I think you kind of missed the point. This is about media attention and hysteria. I felt the phrasing problematic as well, but that seems to be the biggest point

    Shaq has cheated on Shaunie probably more times than Tiger has on Elin–but nobody cares about that. I think a lot of that has to do with his image as a squeaky clean GOLF player, one that tries to de-emphasize his Blackness (that whole special ass Cablinasian ish) and yet gets caught up doing some of the most stereotypical Black men type behavior

    There is something about “violating” white women that is true when we look at media coverage and public reaction. I think Maurice Garland is right on that point. I mean that Taylor Swift girl is getting damn Grammy Nominations cause Kanye made her cry.

    And another thing, how was Robin Givens “the fall of” Mike Tyson. He was beating her ass! He was the fall to himself. The worst thing to happen to Mike was the death of his trainer/father figure. He didn’t have no one to put him in check after that. I agree that Robin is a mess, but shes not the fall of his career! Maybe he shouldn’t have raped that woman SMH.

  • lishia

    So, this is my first time commenting on any of the posts on this site and it is one I feel like my friends and I discuss far too much. As the product of an interracial relationship (white father, black mother), it is unfortunate that we are all so hung up on the racial makeup of other people’s relationships.

    Tiger’s downfall cannot be attributed to his white wife, it can be attributed to his lack of morals in regards to his marriage. I do believe that in part of the fascination with Tiger is that he has a beautiful white wife and how dare he cheat on her but it is also due to the fact that there are 13 or more women claiming to be his mistress. There is the race component but it isn’t the only factor.

    Do I believe that black women tend to overreact with black men dating outside of their race? Hell yeah. I have friends who cover their eyes when they see a black man and a white woman together and they know that I am a product of a interracial relationship! It is sad to read that some people are perpetuating the same stereotypes that black women are trying to overcome in the media, that our personalities cannot be as varied as white women in relationships. It shouldn’t come as a news flash that white women and black women act the same in relationships but we only focus on the differences (racial makeup) rather than the similarities.

    Thanks NWSO for the post, in the last 3 days, I have become addicted to your blog and all of the comments!

  • AmakaCamille

    Do you think that every time a Black man goes down it’s the fault of a White woman? Nope its usually his fault. Getting caught up in stupid behavior.

    Do you feel that some Black women always want to blame their man troubles on women of different races? Sometimes this is def the case. Other times it isn’t. I think it can be very frustrating to be a Black woman (least married women on the entire PLANET) and sometimes you wanna blame something obvious for this unfortunate circumstance

    Ladies, do you take it as a personal insult when a successful Black man marries/dates outside the race? Why? I don’t but it honestly makes me sad sometimes. I love seeing beautiful Black couples at any socioeconomic status.

    Do some of you really feel that Black men view White women as the ultimate trophy and the sisters are consolation prizes? DUH. Not all Black men, but come on, some still see white girls as trophies. Not only do they define Western beauty standards (which cultures across the globe try to emulate by skin bleaching and other ridiculous means) but there are so many stereotypes about how white women take care of their man and etc.

    Why do you think American culture is so focused on race? Because this country was founded on racism. Because racial inequity is still prevalent in this country. Because no matter what bullshit the media says, we are NOT “post racial”.

    At the end of the day, shouldn’t people be more outraged about Tiger’s cheating than by the color of the women he cheated with and married?
    We shouldn’t be outraged at all. Non-famous people have the same issues we all do.

    Lets be outraged that we’re sending more troops to Afghanistan. Or that some cities (like Deitroit) have over 30% unemployment…..come on y’all

    okay sorry for all of the comments lol. fin.

  • N2Deep

    I disagree with that it is clearly a race issue. The Tiger situation was a Tiger issue. Tiger is the most famous professional athelete in a sport that was probably the most prejudice of all sports but he is so respected by his peers and everyone in the world of golf that the media was begging for any dirt. He openly admitted he was not “Black” but still had respect from all races.

    Lets be real. The story broke and everyone had all these pictures and proof from times and places that they were hoping for a story. I admit the media is a bastard at times but tell me that if the media had an idea that Mrs. woods didn’t have a clue? The club doesn’t come flying after the first incident!!

    I’ll give you two instances. Bill Cosby admitted cheating but his wife stood strong. What about Shar Jackson? Does that name ring a bell? She wasn’t married but she was more famous at the time than her baby daddy, Kevin Federline (Mr. Brittany Spears). She stood strong and didn’t blast to the press.

    The medias mouth was watering and overflowing with possibilities but they couldn’t prove anything and still can’t unless they have more help from those involved. The shame of it all is that they are hurting the millions of kids who looked up to Tiger.

    Every man falls short but instead of building we destroy in order to prove what we already know that every man falls short!!

  • da ThRONe

    Yeah there is something to this! When black celebs mess have issues with black woman the media doesnt make a huge deal(if they make a deal at all). But if a black celeb does something to a white female it over blown.

    Case in point Ben Rothlisberger(a white QB for last year superbowl champs for those who may not know) is dealing with a civil case for rape allegations. It isnt nearly as covered as Kobe rape allegations were.

    I think the media purposely focus on interracial(black guy white girl) stories because there is already a certain unease with interracial dating so it will get more attention then black on black issues. And even in some cases with white on white issues. Im certain that when the media execs pick the topics to discuss its going through their minds.

  • da ThRONe

    @N2Deep

    Micheal Jordan was the biggest athlete at his time and it was well known that he ran around on his wife yet it never got this much coverage. Now there might have never been the it moment(it being the crash) but there were enough issues and the gambling but it was never news enough.

    Also A-Rod is a huge star who was photographed with a stripper while married. And his “indiscretion” never got covered like “Cheetah” Woods. Is this all a huge coincidence? I think not.

  • da ThRONe

    I will say what others are pointing out. I dont think the guest bloger is saying white females are the downfall of black men. Anybody who cheats especially in the fashion in which “Cheetah” did is their own downfall. I think the guest bloger is talking about the coverage and attention paid to it by the media when its black guy white gal.

    The media named the O.J. trial “The trial of the century”. The question is if Nicole Brown was brown would it still have been the “Trial of the century”? IMO I say hell no.

  • anonymous

    I am the “guest blogger” and I intended to bring attention to the biases within the media; I am pleased that others recognize that. The blog stirred up emotion within me. I am dying for Black Men to understand the role that race and sex play within this society. Maybe it would help us to communicate with one another better.

    AmakaCamille was right about Robin Given’s; Tyson beat her! Yesterday, it was Rihanna. Some how Rihanna situation was connected to the Trini woman in the video. ? What? THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THAT RIHANNA HIT CHRIS.

  • anonymous

    I am the “guest blogger” and I intended to bring attention to the biases within the media; I am pleased that others recognize that. The blog stirred up emotion within me. I am dying for Black Men to understand the role that race and sex play within this society. Maybe it would help us to communicate with one another better.

    AmakaCamille was right about Robin Given’s; Tyson beat her! Yesterday, it was Rihanna. Some how Rihanna situation was connected to the Trini woman in the video. ? What? THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THAT RIHANNA HIT CHRIS- AT ALL. Somehow a linkage was created. Somehow, the 14 year old girl on the sex tape with R. Kelly “wanted it.” Black women aren’t submissive etc etc.

    NWSO, i’ve been reading your blogs regularly and I am a fan. I would really like to see you challenge yourself a bit more with regard to sexism within the Black community and how it is echoed throughout society at large. It is creating a steel wall between black men and black women. By and by. Through and through.

  • N2Deep

    @guest Blogger

    I’m not sure if it was my comment on black women not beig submissive but if you ask the average young black woman about being submissive I bet they all have a certain line they will not cross because it takes from their strength. So, I will still have to say Black Women aren’t as submissive as white women.

    @Throne

    I agree MJ was the biggest but the sport of basketball had already had Black Stars. Golf still had issues recently about clubs having minority members. I know that there are plenty Bigots that want Tiger to fall hard because there are no other Minority threats to the game of golf. And we know who really controls the media!! Its like pool when the white ball knocks the black ball in the game is over and you win if the white ball stays on the table.

    Racism and sexism play a role but there are plenty other factors that need to be addressed as well. We have to teach our kids importance of love and relationships. We have courses in history and sex education but neither teaches how to use it in real life. Racism and sexism doesn’t look the same as it did years ago.

  • da ThRONe

    @N2Deep

    My point is simply that race plays a factor when the media is reporting to us what we as a nation should care about.

    In all honesty “Cheetah” Woods shouldnt be any more famous to the average person than Jimmie Johnson and Jeff Gordon(Nascar) or Arnold Palmer and Jack Nicklaus(golfer). But being the Black golfer is news and it made him more marketable so then ran with it. The bottomline is most people could careless about golf(especially before Woods) yet and still Tiger Woods is a household name. Why because the media forced him on you without you even knowing. Most people of color identify with him just because in their minds he wasnt white and was dominating a white event. Not even knowing that he identifies with white people. All it takes sometimes is a hook and for Tiger being black was the hook. Despite the fact that he would rather embrace another culture. The media built him off of race why wouldnt they tear him down for the same reason? Im all but sure if Tiger was into asian women this wouldnt even be a big deal. It would have simply went down as a one person car wreck and would have been swept under the rug IMO.

  • anonymous

    N2Deep, I can only speak for myself; I am submissive to a point. I absolutely was not refering to your prior post- at all. I am referring to people who believe that strength and submission are atonymous.

  • Ozymandius

    I agree with their race not meaning anything. Tiger has tried long and hard to make sure he wasnt the black guy, but his position is understandable because america has the race thing so f’ed up. Black is (gulp), BAD in this country. Whoop, there it is.

    In the meantime, here’s a couple of DUH’s:

    America is racist.

    The press is a bitch.

    Tiger is a moron, who just happened to love that while flesh.

    Ta-da!

    I’m always entertained by how the simplest things are overlooked by so many. Those little hoe-ass-tricks were all sleeping with a married man, and they came crowing to the press when the snoops finally saw a light at the end of the scandal tunnel. I CANT WAIT to see what Essence writes about all them little white girls, but do know this- they all hoes, ALL of them. Just like the smart ladies know, a guy is only going to be able to do what you let him. So where are the LADIES crying foul over all these chicks who drop thier draws for a chance with a star? They making all yall independence/strength talk seem like a load of ‘le crap’, and making it harder for yall to find these “good guys”. What a joke.

    Interesting enough, i met a dude of West Indian descent (ok, he’s trini!) who told me he wrote off sisters years ago, for the “typical” things we all hear about- drama, refusal to pay for a date, and lack of competition to other women who actually liek to take care of their men.(hey hey now, thats what HE said). While I think he took it to an extreme, some of his other complaints had merit. Some dudes are just like that, they are not interested in fighting for position with a woman because she is “strong”. I think sometimes “strong” is confused with simply just being a little “beeyacch”, but whatever. Many dudes, just wanna chill with a cool girl that will look out for them JUST BECAUSE. Cant fault a man for that, right?

  • Anonymous

    its true…The black man doesn’t have to be famous or rich….The black men like white women cause they can get ova on things,but us sisters aint gonna tolerate it….Ever year more black men get with white women.They act like its nothing’!!!!

  • http://nwso.net NWSO

    @fuckwhite…

    We try to keep it classy here, what does the “white devil” talk really add to the conversation/discussion? Think it takes away more than anything. Really, what does white devil mean anyway? Is that supposed to lump all folks of white decent into one ungodly creature devoid of individuality and free thinking to just be a human being? Are there Black devils? Brown devils?

    End of the day, we’re all human beings no matter the color so if there is white devils then there damn sure are Black ones.

    #I’mJustSaying

  • fuckwhitedevils

    who gives a fuck about white women….

    thats all….

  • http://nwso.net NWSO

    @N2Deep

    Dude, you just dropped a whole bunch of stereotypes. DC Man beat me to the punch but I believe the sister in yesterday’s blog entry was of color and no offense to her but she clearly wasn’t a strong Black woman.

    I’d really like to see you step to a White woman and tell her that she and all of women that look like her are submissive and weak. Pretty sure by end of day you’ll have a sore cheek and crotch from getting slapped and kicked in the groin.

    Yeah, what you wrote is the STEREOTYPE but why would that one hold true while other ones like all Black men are dogs, in jail and uneducated be false (i.e. Barack)?

    Can’t have one stereotype be true and then have the one about yourself be false, unless you fit the bill of Black male stereotype. No shots, just saying.

  • DC Man With a Plan

    Did you ladies read yesterday’s blog? I would bet dollars to donuts it was written by a Black woman bcuz of the terms and phrases used. Anyways, it did NOT show Black woman as paragons of good judgement, virtue or “strength.” Didn’t show the strong black woman y’all actin like is the only type out here. This whole white woman are weaker, more submissive, yada-yada is as much a stereotype as is the notion that all black women are strong and independant. Did you see Precious? Was Moniques character, the welfare fraud who allowed her daughter to get raped, real strong to you? Anyways, back to the real world. As Da Throne and others have pointed out, the media loves hyping any issue that deals with the betrayal of a white wife. As far as MJ’s wife or Steve Mcnairs wife–if THEY had made noise, they too, could have kept their spouses situation in the press, but those women of character chose to keep it private and personal. For those who think white men don’ty make the press, do you remember a guy named Bill Clinton? How about the Gov of SC? How about John Edwards? Did those white guys get a pass?

  • http://nwso.net NWSO

    @anonymous (the guest blogger)

    Well, I focused in on the woman you quoted as that’s what struck a chord with me more than anything, especially since a lot of her arguing points were off base, IMO. How can you take her argument serious when she’s blaming ALL White women for the detriment of Black males? Her whole tone (not yours) just threw me for a loop that the other point you were trying to make was overshadowed.

    And it is about Tiger to some degree either way, he was what led that woman to comment and he is a black male celeb that fits into the discussion that you want to have.

    Now, I never or don’t deny that race is important in America, but I don’t automatically jump at the race card anytime someone Black and White is in the media. People seem to forget that Tiger is one of the most famous and recognizable men in the world. To my knowledge, he’s the first athlete to earn a billion dollars. That puts him in a Bill Gates level, and I’m sure if Gates had a string of side pieces likr Tiger the media would be all over it too.

    The reason being, especially for Tiger, is because it’s not expected. He was painted out to be this perfect gentleman so this is just juicy gossip that the media is eating up. Picture if it came out that the White Pope was smashing the homies left and right, that wouldn’t be news or it would get swept under the rug because he was White? Doubt it. Tiger is uber famous and he got dirt on his name, so the media is pouncing.

    Shaq? Come on, are we surprised he cheated? I wasn’t, and maybe if Tiger wasn’t out there Shaq would be getting more press for his mess, because he was just as grimy if not more because he was messing with other married women of other NBA players and at least one dancer.

    I honestly don’t think this is CLEARLY a race issue, only because people want it to be. It’s a cheating ass celebrity issue who doesn’t respect the values of marriage. When I heard the news break, I was like damn Tiger cheated? Damn Tiger cheated with random groupies and not even some women of notoriety or class? Damn, a porn star? Damn, that’s crazy, THEN after all that I though oh word, all the women were White. Oh well.

    The bigger issue for me personally, is one that I mentioned in passing, but no one has addressed, it sounds to me like Tiger is a SEXAHOLIC. No one seems to look at his behavior as that of a sick person who needs some help.

    What’s up with that?

    ***Pick a name, it’d be easier to communicate. LOL

  • DC Man With a Plan

    And for the record, Tiger Woods was actually caught a few years ago slingin his wood, but it was NOT reported bcuz he agreed to do an exclusive interview with a magazine. So yeah, there was a cover-up and Tiger WAS given a deal and had the chance to keep it on the low-low, but NAW, he didn’t take the hint. He didn’t stop dealing with chicks that can’t keep their mouth shut. Anyways, U wanna read something more fair about Tiger? Read the article titled ” Heres Truth Behind the Tiger Woods Scandal” by Jason Whitlock, dated 17 Dec on Fox Sports. Jason is a deep and serious brotha…and I’m sure you’ll have a different perspective after you read his article…..

  • http://nwso.net NWSO

    @Amakacamille & @Liz

    Aiight cool, thanx for the head sup on Tiger’s pops passing. I wrote in the moment and was unaware of that fact, but my bigger point in that section was that as an interracial man that married an interracial woman I doubt that he’d be rolling in his grave at Tiger marrying a White woman like the woman quoted suggested. Dead or alive, it doesn’t make sense.

    @Amakacamille

    As for Robin Givens, I didn’t say that she was the only reason Tyson failed/stumbled or whatever you call it, I noted that he had issues before and after her, the point I was trying to make is that Robin didn’t HELP him either. Their relationship from my understanding was very abusive both ways with Robin and her moms manipulating his money etc.

    I agree that when Tyson’s trainer died, he was left astray and bad people like Don King and Robin Givens came in and took advantage of him. Tyson is far from perfect but people (Black and White) that came around him and just took while he self-destructed are just as guilty.

    So again, I didn’t say Robin was the death of his career but she wasn’t a uplifting, supportive highlight either, just another bad bump along a troublesome road that is Mike Tyson.

  • bogart4017

    Race is at the root of everything-EVERYTHING-in this country and it is unfortunate but true. You can have a handful of white men and women who say they have no problem with a black man marrying or dating a white woman. Hell, they may even invite the couple to their home for dinner. But you pop that white woman upside the head once or twice and they will have VERY definite opinions about that. Naturally they will mind their own business if you’re beating down Tanisha from the Tanglewood projects. Hypocrites.
    To answer the post, i don’t know any sisters who blame other women for their man troubles—they blame men for their man troubles.
    No, white women are not responsible for our downfalls. We are usually our own undoing (can you say Mayor Marion Barry?)

  • http://nwso.net NWSO

    @Anonymous (the guest blogger)

    As for the post the other day with the Trini woman. I never said Rihanna hit Chris etc, the point of that post was a WHAT IF scenario as a way to look at things from a different perspective. Like I said in that post, I, nor anyone else, knows what happened with Rihanna and Chris that night but I watched that clip of a Caribbean woman wilding out on her man in a car and forgive me for thinking about Rihanna (a Caribbean woman) wilding out on her man in a car.

    Again, I didn’t phrase it as THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED THAT NIGHT Y’ALL but damn, what if this happened would you view things differently? But beyond that, do women have the right to do what’s going on in this video. Healthy convo all around to me.

    As for the challenging of sexism etc, it’s just not what I got from your email and what I chose to focus on in this post. The woman you quoted just resonated with me more and as always you guys get what I feel and my perspective even if it is not your own.

    Intent and perception are not always the same thing. The failure of human communication :( Appreciate the discussion topic regardless

    The door is always open for folks to present their own entries and rebuttal posts to anything I write/post.

  • Potato w/ Jive

    In the end this is a case of people seeing what they want to see so it strengthens their point of view. I co-sign with DC in that its more stereotype than reality. It really is time we put threat kind of talk to rest instead of constantly bringing it back the minute we feel threatened. Not all black women are strong. Not all white women are submissive. Not all black men date white women as trophies. Its all about what exactly you are seeking out.

    Im not naive enough to say that racism does not play a part in our culture and our media but we also have to take responsibility because WE TOO, are the culture. Continuing to perpetuate these dated stereotypes will continue to hinder progress. the dialogue needs to continue but it cant if we bring up this talk about “white devils” and the supposed “downfall of black men”.

    So sistas, next time you see a black man, dating someone who’s not your idea of a strong, nubian queen, give them the benefit of the doubt that maybe…just maybe, they are able to see past what you clearly are unwilling to.

  • Potato w/ Jive

    @ bogart4017

    If you bop ANYONE upside the head once or twice wouldn’t they have an opinion about that regardless? I guess i just didn’t understand your point with that comment.

  • Winter137

    I honestly don’t believe that the Tiger uproar over him slighting a white woman. The uproar is over him having hoes falling from every crack, crevice, and hole.

    The fact is I tell my co workers thank god he’s married to a white woman because it would have been on and popping otherwise.

    Am I slighted when a sucessful black man chooses white ? Yes, it confirms a certain belief. However, I do believe that in some cases – love happens.

  • Liz

    Actually Anslem, Tiger Woods father passed away in May of 2006 of cancer : http://sports.espn.go.com/golf/news/story?id=2431912. When I was watching HLN they stated that he might have done all the cheating b/c of the fact that his dad passed away and he was usually the person to tell him what not to do and what would be best for him and his career. But either way, you’re right I don’t think his dad would care if he was with a white woman or not smh. Color of skin has absolutely nothing to do with how a man’s career ends up or if he decides to cheat on them or not.

  • Rastaman

    I propose that from here on everyone in high school or college be required to take a media class. I say that because maybe they will get an opportunity to look at the history of the American media, tabloid journalism and why certain stories are covered more than others. One rule in tabloid journalism is “If it bleeds it leads.” OJ Simpson’s murder trial was the trial of the century because it touched on nearly every hot button issue in American society: Crime, sex, race and celebrity/wealth. That is a “jackpot” new story if there ever was one.

    One thing that is evident from this letter and some of the responses is that there are many people in this country who are obsessed with race and view everything through a racial prism. It is an unfortuate reality because it colors their every perception and skewers their moral compass. I am not one of those folks who get all twisted about marital infidelity because like death and taxes it is in my experience an inevitability of life. It is disingenius on any one’s part to suggest that the race of the wives or the hoochies even matters.

    The facts are: all manner of men cheat: black, white asian, rich, poor, tall, short and famous, infamous and anonymous. To quote Chris Rock; “we are as faithful as our options.” Wealth and celebrity offers one more options. It is not some complex racial conspiracy to bring the black man down. Plus there is no need to defend the likes of Tiger Woods, he already said he is not black. So sistas can quite wailing and gnashing of teeth about the fate of our black male celebrities.

    I have had relations with all manner of women race/ethnicity and while the first time with someone of a different race/ethnicity is a novelty after sometime it wears off. If you take anytime to know the person you find out that most women regardless or race/ethnicity are 99% the same. There differences are primarily cultural rather than skin color.

    The honest truth is that the majority of men are good guys. Most of these good guys would cheat if they could get away with it and generally it has nothing to do with how he feels about his wife or GF.

    Women for your own sanity stop wanting men to see the world like you do. We don’t expect you see the world as we do and we are ok with it. That is one of the reason we are so nonplussed about so many things.

  • http://loveloleeta.blogspot.com JessyRod

    NWSO, whaassup! Been a while. Saw this update in my inbox and had to read asap. Happier that I have my 2.50 to add to it.

    I think the reader’s comment about every black man’s downfall being a white woman is lame. I do think however that it bepspeaks ton of how she, and the world, is looking at this situation (and the various other examples she mentioned): through the dichotomous black-white lens.

    I believe if all the folks involved were black or vice versa there would have been just as much uproar. How do you ignore a dozen mistresses, hush money, text and voice messages and a wife with two babies who can no longer deny her husband’s a douche? It’s a freaking Jerry Springer episode! But our society’s fixation on race/ethnicity only served to magnify it.

    As far as using the race card, I think that people still can’t get past the lines and laws that once divided us. I mean come on, it was just 50 yrs ago that interracial marriage was illegal and just MONTHS ago that a judge wouldn’t marry an interracial couple. Race, although it is a social construction, has such real life consequences that still permeate our daily existence that it’s going to take another 50 years, if we’re lucky, before people can see past it.

    Once upon a time (in college) it steamed me to see black and brown men dating white women. I grumbled, along with many other women of color I knew, about how they couldn’t take them chicks home to Mom or how there were plenty of single and amazing WOC’s on campus. When I stopped and stepped outside of myself, I recognized: not a one of us had stepped to or expressed interest in any of the dudes who were suddenly no longer available. The expectations and courting rituals were set so impossibly high that it was almost impossible for either party to step out of their own comfort zone to approach the other.

    *shrugging as that theory flies out the door*

    Needless to say I got over it. You like who you like, you love who you love, you lust after who you lust after. Lack of character and natural human flaws are what seem to have been the “downfall” of the alleged great men.

  • superwoman

    hmm, i reckon the guest bloggers post was a bit hysterical (white women are the downfall of famous black men), but i DO see a point within the point she was making – you have famous and monied black men cheating on their wives left, right and centre, maintaining second households… and if it comes to light, there’s VERY little sympathy for the cheated on black wife…it’s like she’s a sideshow to the larger drama (if they bother to make a noise about it, that is)

    contrast that with the attention and sympathy that elin is receiving… you HAVE to admit, there’s a real disconnect in how steve mcnairs wife (who lost sooo much more, compratively) is being treated as compared to elin….

    just a thought, writing in from sunny south africa, where we are OBSESSED with tiger and the tale of the never ending mistresses….

  • fuckwhitedevils

    yes that is my contribution to this discussion…fuck white devils…

    ok classy, hmmm…well FORGET white devils…is that better…

  • MS ZOI

    Ok enough with the Tiger Drama. I have been following him since he was like 10 yrs old in Jet Magazine n I was Pres of the NAACP I remember thinking “wow this kid is the shit”! Anyway fastforward MANY years later. He “to no surprise” marries a white woman. Who gives a crap! But the media cares… don’t they! See I truly believe that love has no color however the media is ALWAYS black n white. This man married someone who he felt was appropriate (he was expected by even the public to choose someone like her… let’s be honest) but in the end I don’t believe it was for real love. This man has cheated on her the entire time, even when dating. This is not the actions of someone in love.

    Ultimately I really don’t care who he sticks his dick in cause that does not take away from him being Talented as hell. Golfing is not an easy sport and living life in public eye isn’t either.

    Koodos for Tiger being who he is and for Elin swinging that club on his ass but shame that the media won’t stay the hell outta they’re problems.

    Oh and for the article… GET OVER IT! If you trace your family line you had Masta Tom in your cabin which probably produced a mix breed. At this point should race really matter? Sounds like the writer has some personal issues with race. DEAL WIT IT!

  • Songboy3

    Well said, NWSO.

    @fuckwhitedevils

    Funny as it may seem, you sound just like…a white devil.

    LOLOLOLOLOLOL!

    I kill me sometimes… :)

    I have my biases (like we all do) but I do try my best to NOT let my anger control and/or color my responses completely to the situations that I have to deal with constantly as a black man in a country that historically doesn’t put much value on my life or my contributions.

    That being said, I’d have to be a fool to not understand the anger that folks feel concerning the media response to the Tiger Woods drama. We know race is a big aspect of it. We must also consider the mainstreamed hypocrisy of marriage in the USA and the unreal expectations this country puts on that particular institution. Add into this stew this country’s unhealthy obsession with **celebrity** and you have the makings of a TMZ wet dream of nuclear proportions!

    Personally, I really feel that this is a private matter between the folks in the marriage, not water-cooler fodder. But as usual, folks will use this situation as a way to validate their own personal conclusions and biases concerning marriage, race, black-on-black love (or the lack thereof) & a host of other subjects. I’d like to think that Mr Woods drama can be a lesson learned and not yet another ‘AH-HAH! See? I told-you so!’ moment. It’s so tired and it really makes you realize that unfortunately, most folks are so lost in their own personal drama that they’re really not that interested in finding a way to make some positive forward movement for themselves and for the people that they claim to love after seeing what can happen if you follow the particular path that Tiger took.

    You have to be brutally honest with yourself as you ask this question: Do you want to be ‘right’ as you drown forever in your own pain, anger and confusion or do you want to try to find a way to move past it, making a change in how you live that raises you up in a way the helps and soothes you and yours?

    I know what I want to do. What do YOU want to do?

    Damn. Do I usually talk (or write) this much?

    Geezus…

  • Shequita

    First off black woman are strong because we have to be, independent because we have to be. The black household structure is not the same as others and will never be the same. Sad but true, that has alot to do with our history. I could care less if a black mn wants to date white woman, I just hate that they are in fact put on a pedestal. I know my worth and my beauty that has nothing to do with wether or not I’ll let my man “take the lead”!! Before people use words like “submissive”, know what your saying!

    ” but someone else’s past is not my past so I don’t see why so many of us blacks have to adopt what happened to someone else in the past and make it our own pain just because we are the same color”……My response to this is it’s easier said then done and slmost impossible. The effects of what happened to us as a race still effect us today, and always will. You can call me crazy and I’ll just call you naive.

  • TaiTai

    Thanks for posting the guet blogger’s topic Ans. Grat way to get convo started.
    @the Guest Blogger: I totally agree that the “black man/athlete/actor/singer” “poor white woman” scenarios are hyped up RIDICULOUSLY by the media. That sad thing is that its done so often and the bias is so dominant in our culture, that its rare that folks will see it that way. They will often even make excuses for white counterparts the do similar crimes, if they are mentioned at all.
    You can make me believe that more white NBA/NFL/MLB stars aren’t cheating no their wives. But when the Black guy does it…SMH

    @N2Deep: I think this issue with this “submission” thing is not necessarily how much black women do or don’t submit, its who we do or don’t submit to. I think our standards are different with regards to what qualities a man must possess before we can feel 100% able to be submissive. At least, that’s how my friends and I see it. We are all successful self sufficient women; I won’t be “submitting” to a guy that is not trying to commit or is at very least taking care of business and making me feel respected and loved. Why should I? IMHO, it seems like white women look at whatever relationship they are in as reason enough to submit, which is why some brothas run through white girls with such reckless abandon. Just my 2 cents on that…

  • Shequita

    I’d also like to add that alot of black women get mad because we can’t do the same and date a white man…because most of us are not attracted to them or the size of their “members” (not a stereotype proven fact that black men ON AVERAGE have larger penises)!! Alright thats my ignant comment for the day

  • BacciseJ

    This post made me lose respect for this blog. So for now, I’ll leave it at this:

    This conversation fails on many levels, mainly because people are ignoring history and, therefore, failing to understand the context for why interracial dating/marriage is detrimental to our community.

    The history that should inform our present condition precedes chattel slavery in America. We are descended from the originators of thought and civilization, whose legacy has been stolen and distorted so that we have no choice but to render ourselves dependent upon and desirous of whiteness. We have been rulers of nations greater than this. And whether you can determine where exactly you come from in Africa or not, your bloodline begins there. Respect it and learn everything you can about it. Or continue to be misled; continue to be dependent upon a people who continue to do anything necessary, on every level, to make sure you will always suffer.

    Accordingly, because of our dependency on and admiration of white hate (often disguised as “diversity”/integration/inclusion), black men and women fail each other. Until we recognize this fact and reject the sources of our dysfunction, our families will remain broken, we will continue to play the blame game, and we will remain slaves because we submit to the tactic of divide and conquer.

    We all agree that at the core, to love someone for the sole purpose of giving THEM power is unhealthy. So then refuse to do so. Stop submitting to the progeny of the master. Love yourself. And in order to do that, realize you have to severe ties with hate. You can’t admire someone who hates you and expect love to result from that. All white people may not be bad, and all black people may not be good, but at the end of the day, that black person is your brethren. Your sister or brother hates you only because he does not accept that you have common origins. So learn those origins yourself, and then each them. Love who you are, and by right, who we are. Otherwise, our unrequited love affair with whiteness will continue to deter our development as individuals and as a people. And it will ultimately bring about our end.

  • BrooklynBomshell

    I highly agree with Shequita.. in fact..not 100% sure about the ignant piece — but i’ll take it girl! lol.
    I don’t think many black women are attracted to white men..it is less about race loyalty and just about plain attraction. It kinda bothers me that people think that black women will find the answers in interracial dating. As a black women, other races dont really approach or show interest in me as much as my brothers. On the contrary, black men find white women attractive..thats how those relationships develop so effortlessly.

    I have mixed feelings about interracial dating… my great grandparents and their parents were white. It just sickens me when men actively seek white women when they have developed a certain level of success. It is semi insulting to me as a black women when you find black guys in hs who weren’t friends with white guys or even confident enough to approach our white classmates approaching these same pageant-esque , trophy women in adult life..once the attained an Ivy degree and six figure jobs. It is pretty disappointing because I think it is a lil calculated and less about love. I guess these sorts of guys need women who are a bit submissive to their lifestyle, accomplishments.. and will stroke their ego.

  • The Duchess

    NWSO- I agree one million %

  • Liz

    Yea ur right NWSO I totally agree, whether his dad is alive or not I doubt he would care.

  • b.better

    I think the quote is pretty dumb. What happened to people being accountable for their own actions? It makes no sense…so its the white womans fault Tiger couldn’t be faithful to his wife? SMH. I tried to really not give this whole Tiger thing as much attention but I think its rather disgusting that he cheated on his wife with 13 women. I’m a black 25 yr old woman let my husband cheat on me with one woman (of any race) let alone 13 and its on and poppin cuz thats just nasty.

    I don’t think its insulting when celebs marry outside their race its what they want to do. What I find insulting is when some black men feel that when they “make it” they have to get a non-black woman…and yes there are many out there like that.

    The real issue that we all need to be focused on is what example has Tiger now set for black youth especially males. With such rise in STD and AIDS was it safe for him to be sexing 13 other women? Also how has this situation added to how we de-value the idea of marriage? These are the things we need to be thinking about and look past the “white folks did it” mentality. Come on we need to move on to something better.

  • Legion

    @NWSO and N2 DEEP… N2 DEEP is correct on this(stereotype or not), black women for the most part are raise to complete, not complete. This will be a problem with alot of men( black or white). Some cant deal with competition in the world and then come home to it too.

  • b.better

    @Brooklyn and Shequita *raises hand* I find other races other than black attractive and I definitely have dated outside my race many of times. We are just programed to think that they (non-black) are not attracted to us or they have these secret diesire to have us but never act on it which is not true at all. Its nonsense to think that way (no diss) but once u step out that bubble of “only dating black” you’ll see that there are many that want us not just cuz were “black” but because we are women…..oh and this doesn’t mean I don’t love/want a black man either. I just like men period.

  • MEKHIA81

    i agree with b.better ….I am a “successful” college educated black female I LOVE MEN! if a man wants to be with me i could careless his color…IS HE CUTE?? DOES HE TREAT ME WELL?

    My standards don’t change due to the color of a man’s skin. My standards are the same for a Black man and a White man. They have to rise to the occasion. I know a lot of white women who dont take no crap off of any guys and i know Black girls who take a lot of crap from there men. So that breaks the “we don’t take no carp and they do ” theory. People are people and we should deal with them on a A-HOLE by A-HOLE basis. I have met many A-HOLES all different shades.

    One thing i must add is that i find that Black women in a relationship with a non black man get ALOT of grief from Black MEN!

  • BacciseJ

    @Rastaman

    In America, black is also partly determined by skin pigmentation, hair type, nose shape, prognatism, and lip shape. When I use “black,” I’m referring to people of African descent, on the continent and elsewhere. People of color are in the majority globally, not just in Africa, but that is not reflected in social power dynamics, even in Africa. So when I reference our survival being threatened, it’s a question of quality, moreso than quantity. I mean, there were more slaves on plantations than there were slave owners, but clearly the former lived lives of lesser quality than the latter.

    You can travel to Europe as much as you’d like to figure out your relationship to the world. You can try to “understand” what it means to be black in America all you want. But neither Europe nor America are the sources of our genesis, and you will fail to reclaim your position and purpose if you don’t realize that. The first people were African. All world history emanates from Africa. And yet, it is the continent we know the least about. Our ignorance about our history is exactly the reason that the relationship between black men and black women is dysfunctional.

    We don’t know who we are, so we don’t care who we sleep with.

    And the cycle continues.

  • Rastaman

    @BacciseJ
    What is black?

    In most other places in the world that designation is determined by skin pigmentation, hair type, nose shape, prognatism, and lip shape.

    There are over 150 million black folks in Nigeria alone. I think the future of the black race is secure. Unless you are specifically worried about African-American culture, then that is a different concern. From a strictly numbers perspective white folks are more worried about their survival than any other group. Thus the fanatical ant-abortion rhetoric that comes out of most white supremacist groups. Afterall they created the scale for defining who is white and who is not and so they can’t even claim the mixed race.

    A few black men of mostly temporary wealth marrying white women is a lot less dangerous to blacks than the proliferation of guns, illegal drugs, unstable family units and poor education.

    As regards other races not finding black women attractive, that is some BS. Travel to Europe and your eyes might be open to a wider world that exist outside of the narrow prism in which you currently exist. In my travels I have seen some black women with non-black men that I had to be thankful those men existed. Because the plain truth is those women would be single for life if they waited on most black men like me.

    My old college professor, a man who grew up in 1930s Dixie always said he wished every black american child could spend some extended time abroad. Since the education of that experience would be invaluable in helping them better define what being black and american meant in a wider perspective. Not the narrow identity politcs that seemingly hamstrings their views about themselves in the world.

  • Songboy3

    @BacciseJ & Rastaman:

    When is it ‘OK’ to date/sleep with/marry/interact outside of that pool of those folks who consider themselves ‘Black’? Who makes this choice? You? People who were born in Africa? Who? Or do we as human beings have to make our choices ourselves, deal with the consequences and, hopefully, learn from them?

    I got a problem when folks feel so comfortable telling others how they hate themselves because they don’t think in line of some outside opinion. When did that become OK? We (meaning the people who consider themselves ‘Black’) are not part of some hive mind. We are individuals with our own tastes, preferences, ideas & experiences. We can always (and always will, thank goodness) disagree on a lot of different subjects. But you know this already.

    So when did you become the ‘end all, be all’ repository of all Black/African knowledge & wisdom? When will we use our differences as a learning tool instead of always using them as a way to be separated from one another?

  • Siante J

    If they do, that’s their problem. Brotha’s like what they like and no woman can dictate who to date and not do date. Period end of story. If he ain’t for you, find someone who is for you.

    As for me, I’m equal opportunity lover and fucker (races and genders).

  • DC Man With a Plan

    lol….Here we go. Sheqita and Brooklynbomb should take B better’s advice and step outside the black bubble and date white, asian, Hispanic men. Of course, that means MEN of those cultures stepping to you since most of the sista’s on previous blogs up in here indicate they do not think it “lady-like” to initiate conversation with men. I personally have NEVA dated a non-black woman. I had sex with this white chick back in the day–but we weren’t dating…lol..anyways, I’m not sure who these brotha’s are that give you hard looks when you’re with your non black man, but don’t worry about them, they are NOT representative of how WE black men feel, no matter how many anecdotes you throw out tryn to make it appear so. Fact is, me, nor ANY other man, can sleep with all the black, white, ( fill in the blank) women, so why the f*ck would I give a flip about who you’re with? If you’re with another man–obviously you’re not the one for me, so you’re invisible to me. MAYBE you think you’re the center of attention when you’re with a white guy…or maybe you want to BE the center of attention…smdh….THERE are wayyy more black women than black men, so do you. Go get you a white guy, red guy blue guy. Just long as you shut the f*ck up about this same tired azz noise–we’re all good. SOME Black men have been dating outside the box forever, so this is YOUR permission, Black woman, to do the same. We cool now? Of course not….bcuz some of you will NEVA be satisfied…just bcuz.

  • DC Man With a Plan

    no matter how some of you want to portray it, me and millions of other brotha’s will not settle for anything BUT a black woman…uhhmmm, ok, maybe throw in a brown woman–but that’s it! Lol….WE do not put other cultures women–on a pedestal. And no matter how racism has inserted itself into all that is America, I know my mom, grandma, sisters and aunts/nieces are Black women, so Black is always top tier in my tree. If anything, I can be accused of being prejudiced against other ethnic groups–but I’m entitled just as others are to prefer what one can characterize as their own. For those who wanna say: the human race is their race..I applaud you for the effort at constructing a color blind society…at least in your own mind!

  • Malia

    —black women for the most part are raise to compete, not complete. This will be a problem with alot of men—

    While this may be true, the problem becomes when black men start to paint all black women with such a wide brush that he can’t see them as individuals.

    With regards to brothers that get white (or non black) women when they make it, I have yet to meet one that didn’t use such phrases as “black women this” or “black women that”. It’s never Keisha, Niecey and Tasha this and Stacey, Monique Tanya that, it’s all of a sudden ALL of us.

    They usually don’t paint women of other races with such wide stereotypes and are more willing to accept them for who they are, not the cultural baggage attached to the color of their skin.

    As such, the woman of the other race isn’t as much of a trophy because she is white, she’s a trophy because she represents the antithesis of all that he has grown to despise and stereotype about black women.

    There is no black woman equivalent of this because for the most part, we do not feel it’s a prize or an achievement to get a white man. It’s more like a consolation prize when that ideal brother wasn’t there. You do find a new wave of sisters who feel differently, but again, that’s relatively new.

    So to sum it all up, it really doesn’t matter what we, as black women, are taught or how we’re raised because by the time it gets to that point, we’re going to get stereotyped just for being black, no matter what our actual individual qualities are.

    If we’re assertive, we’re agressive, if we’re independent, we don’t need a man, if we’re sensual, we’re hoes, if we get upset, we’re angry black women, if we’re not smiling at any particular time, we’re mad with a chip on our shoulder and every slightest transgression is used to validate the stereotype. And when you don’t fit the stereotype– well now you’re a magical mythical exception.

    And while the same often goes in the other direction, the difference is that as a group, black women do not have the same level of desire for non black men. Even with the encouragement of interracial dating, it’s “when you can’t find a brother, widen your pool to other races” whereas for black men they are encouraged to have that all-encompassing pool to begin with.

  • BacciseJ

    @b.better

    I’m not romanticizing Africa and/or Africans. I just advocate knowing your history and pulling from it what you can to survive when the situation is as bad as it is for us.

    Nothing changes that people of color have suffered globally because of white domination. The mere fact that you acknowledge that continental Africans (like everywhere else) struggle with colorism, capitalism, and individualism is a testament to that fact. But recognizing that white people are the source of our condition is not the same as blaming them for it, because we are participants, too.

    You can’t be a slave unless you submit to your master’s will. And our ignorance is keeping us at the bottom.

    Please understand, I have nothing but love in my heart. I don’t hate white (or any other) people; I just love my people unconditionally. In order to keep that love going, it’s necessary to reject what I’m told by anyone who hates people who look like me. (Obvious, right? Isn’t that necessary for healthy self-esteem, even on a personal level?) We can only “move on to something better” as you said in a previous comment, if we choose to accept the challenge of loving ourselves, which will continue to be an impossible feat if we continue to let hate decide our paths.

  • b.better

    @BacciseJ

    I hope your are not trying to hold Africa at some high standards because even Africans have their faults too. Thats the thing that kills me about those “back to Africa” black Americans, you think Africa is one big ass community of kumbya’s were everyone calls each other brother and sister they trying to get that guape just like me and u and most will sell there soul to be light skin or even be with a white person. So please miss us with the whole lets go back to our roots and blah blah….and yes I’m African Liberian/Sierra Leonen so i know what f I’m talking about thanks!

    what Rasta is saying (I hope) is step out the box, it would do so many black people well if they just left America for a month and experienced something different.

  • BacciseJ

    @Potato w/jive

    …Did you just call same-race procreation INBREEDING? What science are you referring to? Eugenics? Please try again.

  • http://www.traumaanddrama.blogspot.com Veronica

    Ladies, do you take it as a personal insult when a successful Black man marries/dates outside the race? Why?
    ~~ I’m not so sure I’d say it was ‘offense’, BUT I do feel ‘some kinda way’ SOMETIMES. I think that if a successful black man marries outside of his race because he’s ALWAYS dated outside of his race (even back when he was ashy and broke), then oh well. I think if he marries out side of his race because he just happened to fall in love with a non-black- then OH well. When I get to ‘feelin some kinda way’ is when a poor black guy who is shunned by the ‘white or (non black) community’ grows up with NOTHING BUT support by the black women in his life. He grows to be successful and runs off to marry a white woman (or non black) to ‘spite’ the ones who did him wrong in the past. Or when they marry white because they feel that ‘white is right’ or that ‘marrying white means marrying UP in society’. That’s when I think I’d disagree with the union.

    Do some of you really feel that Black men view White women as the ultimate trophy and the sisters are consolation prizes?
    ~~ In some situations, I do think that black men feel if they can snag a white woman that they’ve WON. (won what? heck if I know…LOL but I think they think they’ve won something).

    Why do you think American culture is so focused on race?
    ~~ I think it’s so race focused because the ones who yell about NOT being racist are some of the ones bringing so much of the drama. You say you ‘aren’t racist’, yet you ‘forbid your children from dating that black/white/muslim (or what ever) child- but they can be friends? C’mon now! That’s STILL racism. And I’m going to say this (and nope- I don’t apologize for this, so if you are offended, then…ummm… oh well), BUT I think that often times WE (black people) make a bigger deal out of racism that not. (I say this as a 30 year old black woman from SOUTH MISSISSIPPI, born and raised my WHOLE LIFE). I think that far too many times we play the racism card when we want things the ‘easy’ way. PLEASE believe, I know racism is still an issue in AMerica. I’m not doubting that or trying to down play it at all… but- I think that we try to play the race card WAYYY too much. Example: young black person, young white person go to interview for a job. The black person is in there and does a poor interview, let’s say just because he/she didn’t know any better. The white person does a better interview because he/she ASKED somebody for advice on what to do and what not to do? Okay- so the young white person gets the job. INSTANTLY it’s ‘oh, oh, oh…so they ONLY gave it to the white person because he was white’. WHEN in essence, that was NOT the case, they white person got the job based on a better interview. We (black people) need to reach out and OFFER advice on how to come up and we need to stop being stubborn and ignorant and prideful and ACCEPT help/advice when offered. We need to open our mouths and seek out those who are professional and ask ‘show me, teach me, help me’, and stop proping our mouths open at every failed opportunity and crying ‘aww man the white man got it again’.

    At the end of the day, shouldn’t people be more outraged about Tiger’s cheating than by the color of the women he cheated with and married?
    ~~ totally agree. the focus is Tiger cheated on his WIFE (no matter what color the wife is.)

  • BacciseJ

    @Royaltee
    “to try and say race is as big as you make it is a lie. In the society we live in Lighter skin is considered more attractive period.”

    …And race has very little to do with why that skin is lighter… and why it is preferred?

  • BacciseJ

    @Songboy3

    I’ve been writing very intently and have yet to say that a black person who dates outside his/her race is a self-hater. I’ve said we are confused, and will continue to be as long as we think it’s okay to make love and procreate without regard for the impact it has.

    I agree, we do have the right to think as individuals and deal with the consequences. But it’s selfish to not realize that those decisions impact those around us. No matter how small that impact may be, EVERYTHING you do touches something or someone else.

    Even remnants of the shit you flush down the toilet ends up in someone else’s drinking water.

  • Potato w/ Jive

    Ditto SongBoy3,

    Whenever this conversation happens i always have to ask, why is there so much importance placed on “keeping the race pure”? It hasn’t proved any biological benefit throughout history. In fact, if we were to hypothetically “stay within our race” we are more likely to develop illness. In fact, science has proven that striving for this type of “inbreeding” often results in creating humans that are more disease prone.

    This emphasis on Homogeneity has always puzzled me. I always attribute it to fear and stubbornness. Fear of the unknown has forever plagued humans. Perhaps this too, is an extention of this fear.

  • N2Deep

    @NWSO

    I find this blog to be very interesting and I am enjoying everyones input because it defines our diversity. I want to say that I never said or meant to give the understanding that my words describe every white woman or black woman. The thing about a STEREOTYPE is that no matter how you slice it the truth is still involved. I have been the stereotype and have been thought to be the stereotype so thats just life. Even Pres. Obama was in the same predicament. Jesus was murdered as if he was common so stereotype escapes noone.

    I said white women are MORE submissive than the black woman. I didn’t say ALL. I am not saying it out of racism but just look around the world. Just looking at Wht and Blk in america, How many Polygamist relationships involve black women? Just look at politics and the never ending affairs that happen. How many involve black women? There were a few where the women was white and she got out.(Applaud) I mean look at Joey Buttafuoco and Amy Fisher. This girl shot his wife(Amy Jo) to be with him and the wife still stayed with her man!!

    I want to give an example of a strong black woman “Oprah”? Tyra? Whoopi? what about Mrs. Obama?

    Lets just say Mrs. Obama now being the Presidents wife has to play a slightly different role because her husband has the entire country in his care. I would think she has to be a little more submissive because of his position. She has to alter some things that probably were never a problem in their relationship.

    For the record I believe being submissive in this case and most cases shows strength. She has to give some in order for the people of america to get true leadership without the problems of a marriage getting in the way.

    I believe more relationships would work if the competition wasn’t placed in the middle. If couples could partner and use each others strengths to ensure the survival of their relationship instead of for self preservation, we wouldn’t have much to say on this subject. Can’t we be submissive to each other?

  • Royaltee

    Let me start by saying love is love regardless race who you love is simply who you love. But to try and say race is as big as you make it is a lie. In the society we live in Lighter skin is considered more attractive period. The most attractive men however are considered “Tall DARK and Handsome” Every time as black woman I try to have this convo with black men they all say “oh black women are angry no we are truthful. Black celebrities men have an affinity for white women if not white, Light bright, You see it everyday look at the majority of famous black woman besides a very small few they are all of the same hue have blond hair and could probably pass for white or bi racial I am in no way against interracial love but do not try to ignore the prevalence that race plays in society unfortunately as a country even with a biracial president we just have not come that far yet But I hope I live to see the day when we do reach the point when race does not matter and personalitiy does

  • Anonymous

    http://bossip.com/195260/maino-sides-with-tiger-woods/#more-195260

    Just to end the day on a lighter note thanks to Maino….

  • YoungJay

    http://bossip.com/195260/maino-sides-with-tiger-woods/#more-195260

    Just to end the day on a lighter note thanks to Maino….

  • Potato w/ Jive

    Perhaps inbreeding is an extreme term but my point is still the same. I’m just referring to the importance placed on same race procreation as you call it. It hasn’t , historically at least, proven any kind of advantage. In fact, it has proven to result in many more social-political ills like war, racism, segregation, genocide etc. Let alone biologically hindering the development of new immunities to diseases.

    So to have self pride and love of tradition is one thing, but to place such importance on making sure that your mate is same race may make way for more social division that actual human progression as a whole.

    On the other side of things, what happens when we all eventually become so intermixed that we become a homogeneous species? What happens when we all become brown? What then? Likely we humans as we often do, will find NEW and innovative ways to remain divided.

    I realize that at the end of the day we prefer who to mate and procreate with but its interesting to hear the reasoning or logic behind the preference to “stay within the race”. Perhaps Im in the minority when i think that its out of fear and perhaps revenge for historical events.

  • BacciseJ

    We should “stay within the race,” in America particularly, because of the rate at which black men and black women are imprisoned or otherwise controlled by the American penal system; because of black children’s substandard academic performance and lack of opportunity, due to the penal structure of the American education system and the poor allocation of funds and resources to black/largely minority schools; because the American media shatters our self-esteem so that we’re susceptible to unhealthy beliefs and behaviors and an overall purposeless existence; because you celebrate Christopher Columbus and eat hotdogs on the 4th of July, but don’t know shit about the Olmecs who were in the Americas even before 500 B.C.; because black people were the origins of humanity and you somehow expect humanity to progress even though we are so lost and misguided.

    All this to say, when you willingly leave your race, you deprive yourself and your community of an opportunity to heal. We have no sense of or appreciation for community, and it’s killing us in all aspects — physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, intellectually, etc. etc.

    So be color blind all you want to. Just know that your black ass is walking a path headed straight off the earth.

  • http://www.imperfectenjoyment.com/blog Dewan W. Gibson

    Damn, wish I had logged on earlier to be in the midst of this discussion. Bottom line, the whole black male-white women “problem” is fabrication. As I said last week 96% of black men are married to black women. I repeat, 96% PERCENT OF BLACK MEN ARE MARRIED TO BLACK WOMEN. Taye Diggs, the Gumbel brothers, Tiger Woods, etc, etc, etc do not reflect the reality when it comes to black male relationships. And if the number decreases who gives a damn.

    Also, the strong black women and weak white women stereotype is BS. There are weak women in all races, and often times men and women go from weak to strong and vice-versa. Even the supposed Black Superwoman Oprah Winfrey SMOKED CRACK BECAUSE A MAN SHE WAS DATING DID IT. Now is she a weak woman? No, but she like many other women had a weak moment. And for all the interracial dating haters, Oprah also dated Roger Ebert. And you don’t get much more white than Roger Ebert.

    Lastly, good point by whoever made the comment about the need for people to travel and get a new perspective. I recently had a sister question me about not dating black women (which is false). I brought up a Nigerian woman I dated before my current relationship and she said “But she ain’t black, she African” That’s the type of ignorant shit u get from not leaving your neighborhood.

    BTW my current gf is Filipina and I don’t give a damn. I’ll take her to a NAACP meeting, New Black Panther Party event, and the next Million Man March. Whoever has a problem go home and sulk.

  • N2Deep

    @BacciseJ

    I like your response to b.better. I agree with you and also believe that history should be used to not make the same mistakes. We as black men and women really need to embrace each other. We have to uplift each other and not let the problems of the world tear us apart.

  • thepulpit

    @BacciseJ
    Unequivocally, it will be the pervasive ignorance within the Black comm. that will be the demise of the Negro – not breeding outside the race.

    Marriage in America is in a terminal catastrophic decline. In the first-ever “Marriage Index Indicator,” heterosexual marriage received a grade of “F” by two research groups.

    What’s shocking? Among African Americans, ONLY 40 percent of adults were married in 2008 (down from 70.3 percent). And about 29 percent of children were living with their parents. So, 70% of black children are raised in a single parent household.

    Even as the Obama’s celebrated their 17th wedding anniversary yesterday, the marriage index indiates such relations between a man and a woman will soon be considered antiquated.

    Actually, many Balck comm. ills can be resolved through community engagement and interventions, but the ignorant messages from most Black churches and some Black comm. leaders keep the mentally enslaved masses confined to their welfare state of existence.

    Black men should move out from the hood and explore and experience exotic cultures, people and places. Brothas must break the conformist brainwashing by the black comm. Wonder why black males have a 34% unemployemnt rate? We don’t think, see nor interpret on a global stage.

    We are the solution to our problems!
    As educator and author Steve Perry stated, “Man Up! Nobody is Coming to Save Us.”

  • BacciseJ

    @thepulpit

    We are all conformist, it’s just a matter of being aware of what you are conforming to.

    Ignorance of our history and cultural origins is exacerbated/encouraged/tolerated/excused when we mate with other races. Why? Because this color-blind delusion implies that history does not matter. You all talk about experiencing and appreciating other cultures, exotic people and places, and have yet to explain why it is not necessary for us to embrace and understand where we came from. I’m working to the disservice of black people because I think we should learn about where we come from? You want us to see ourselves in relation to the world, even though we have no idea how we got to be in this situation in the first place? You can’t cure pneumonia with a cough drop. Your throat may feel better, but your ass is still sick. Get to the root!

  • thepulpit

    @BacciseJ

    Thanks for the response. The root of the problem is the phat azz pink elephant blocking the road: the dysfunctional Black community. We don’t exacerbate our cultural and history origins when we mate outside the race. We Negros do a damn fine job remaining totally ignorant within the race. More non Blacks are more informed and abreast upon Black history than far too many Black folk. I wonder why?

    Well, it’s clear the Black community has been SICK with pneumonia for some time, but now terminal ignorance has set in requiring a biopsy to remove the pervasive cancerous mentality caused by dem churches and dem ignant leaders. However, with current health care, the HMO will not cover this surgical procedure. Therefore, the Black comm. is stuck with stupid :-)

  • Audrey

    Yes. Unfortunately, unless black men are raised with an awareness of themselves, they do not feel they are truly successful unless they have a caucasoid female on their arm. Tiger has denied his black heritage for years. But he’s still a black man who is successful and with a white woman. Elin ain’t crazy though, she took Jazmin Sullivan’s advice to the Tee. LOL

  • http://brooklife.blogspot.com brook

    hmmmn.

    there’s been a lot of talking and a few viewpoints thrown out there.

    @bacciseJ
    have you read Chinua Achebe’s recently published collection of essays The Education of a British-Protected Child? good one from a native Nigerian’s perspective on things.

    @everyone
    Tiger’s cheating is what it is. It doesn’t change what he is famous for. It does tarnish his squeaky clean image. Past that, he’s cheated and he’s weak and he’s human. Ah well, another Olympian has fallen to mortality again.

    What did you think about the quote the reader pulled and the views expressed in it?
    um. weak arguments but i understand where she’s coming from.

    Do you think that every time a Black man goes down it’s the fault of a White woman?
    nope. cats do dumb ish all the time.

    Do you feel that some Black women always want to blame their man troubles on women of different races?

    sometimes they do. but it’s easy to look outside and not at the mirror. It’s a human thing.

    Why do you think American culture is so focused on race?
    it was the way to separate and dominate since New Amsterdam times. What other way does America know?

    At the end of the day, shouldn’t people be more outraged about Tiger’s cheating than by the color of the women he cheated with and married?

    yep but who cares about the right thing? Scandal rules these days, not necessarily the “right” thing.

  • The Duchess

    Pulpit, B.better, Rasta & Potato- PREACH!!

    I wish black folks would stop robbing & killing ONE ANOTHER.. TO ME, that will lead to the demise of the “african american” community.. Black men are in the penal system 95% of the time because of some stupid shit they have gotten THEMSELVES into..

    WAKE UP PPL!!

  • DC Man With a Plan

    After careful review I have to give props to BacciseJ, bcuz she has shared a well thought out arguement, though most seems off the cuff–so she’s REALLY good to work it like that. And though I may not fully accept all she has stated, I do respect it and understand her perspective. She’s a baddd somethin-somethin….A good soldier for the peoples team; A sista “not” with an attitude–but a perspective that is TIGHT! You work it, lady, and continue to be blessed as much as you are a blessing to others…………..

  • BacciseJ

    @thepulpit
    Agreed. Our community is dysfunctional, but not beyond repair.

    @brook
    I haven’t read Achebe’s collection, but I am familiar with his literature and his opinions on the use of the English language to relay stories about African cultures. Are you familiar with the works of Frantz Fanon? Kwame Nkrumah? Sekou Ture? Sundiata? Steve Biko? Kwame Ture? Du Bois? Cheikh Anta Diop? Marcus and Amy Jacques Garvey? Chancellor Williams? Ngugi Wa Thiong’o? Nawal el Saadawi? Jacob Carruthers? John Henrik Clarke? Ella Baker? Marimba Ani? Greg Carr? Valethia Watkins?

    These are just a few very useful perspectives, as well.

    @The Duchess
    Why is it that black women only make up 13% of the population, but represent 30% of all incarcerated women in the U.S.? Are we just doing some stupid shit, too? It is NOT a coincidence that black men and black women are incarcerated disproportionately. It is NOT a coincidence that the people who make the laws that put us in prison today look exactly like the people who wrote the slave codes. Don’t oversimplify the problem.

    @DC Man with a Plan
    I promise I’m not coming off the cuff, but I appreciate that you appreciate the sincerity :)

  • Wariesi/ Anonymous (Guest Blogger)

    Hello Everyone,
    I haven’t had the type of accessibility to the internet that I need. My apologies. Anslem, I invested more thought into the matter: I realized that the woman’s initial comments overshadowed the discussion I wished to engage your readers with.

    I am interested in the intersection between race and gender here; for Black Women specifically. I did not mean to place the emphasis on race but it’s your blog :) and I have to respect the direction that you chose to take this discussion in.

    To be honest, I should have read the mission for your blog. I believed, too quickly albeit, that this blog was interested in engaging an educated Black audience in topics that would challenge their assumptions. This blog does that but it does not deal with feminism which I personally believe needs deep attention amongst Black Americans. I sort of hoped (sorry) that you were a feminist (not a radical feminist or anything), or at the very least understood feminist ideology in a way that would/ could be conveyed through your work.

    I thought I placed emphasis on the intersectionality of gender and race but I didn’t.

    In terms of Tiger’s behavior, yes it’s sick! You’re right. I believe it is even more sick that men are taught (and teach each other) that cheating or juggling women is a method for asserting and validating their masculinity. I believe it is sick that many women are taught that their physical beauty is measure of their worth. Who am i though? Who is Tiger? That is the million dollar question and until we know him we could never understand why he made those choices. I would go a step further and bet that HE DOESN’T KNOW. My opinion, which are a consequence of my personal experiences, is that people cheat when they are lost, empty, and or sexually abused.

    I think, most importantly, that the guest are confusing race and culture. I don’t think Tiger considered himself (at least not publicly) Black. Race is a social construction….not a biological determinate. Just because your black doesn’t mean that you will cheat (necessarily). I think culture- and education to some degree or another-has a more significant impact.

    As for the blog the other day about Rih and Chris, I believe that the hypothetical scenario that you set up was a bit sexist but I don’t want to get into that now. I meant that respectfully, btw. If I have time, I will write something to you that will address my thoughts on that.

    I’m happy that you’re readers are passionate about this topic. I hope you are proud of yourself, and the work you’ve done on this blog; Your audience is amazing and definetly a force to be reckoned with!!!!

    PEace BLessings and More.

  • dAVINARED

    Had they put N2Deep and dathrone’s comments together that would be the perfect comment and explaination/answer for the whole discussion. I am a black woman considering a million explainations for the black man white woman issue from black men personally I have a clear understanding of it all and I dont hate the black man nor the wihite woman for it. I do not and will not deprive myself of men other than black just becuase they’re not black. I enjoy all types. Would you believe me if i were to tell the world that some of my life’s best relationships were other than black. And, if God rewound time, I would do it all over again and wouldnt change a thing?

    Hey why didnt anyone mention up that black hooker and the senator scandal a while back? That would have made an interesting comparison and discussion. As far as Tigers issues the man barely acknowledged that he was even black in his career so why would it even surprise anyone that his women were white? I find it quite funny. But what I do find disturbing is the major factor here in his case the race. How come it always turn out that way? NO one could sit here and honestly say it was because of tiger’s high end success. The man was the worlds best golfer so far but wasnt Mike one of the best ballers as well? It didnt get that much media love. And it got mad love before all the other women surfaced. Attention!!! Angry black women: YOU ALL SHOULD BE LAUGHING WITH FLAMING PASSION WHEN YOU HEAR WHAT HAPPENS TO BLACK CELEBS TRIUMPH AND FALL SO GET OVER IT!! JUST BE GLAD IT WASN’T YOUR BLACK TAIL!

    and you all should seriously open your minds and start opening the door for love elsewhere (i.e. other than black). You just might like it. And you just might find the love and support your mind, body and soul had been deprived from for many years searching in vain for black mister right. But there is a buffet line of good and successful men if you just broaden your search a bit. And hey if it makes you feel any better, leave white women to deal with all that celeb stress because that crap doesnt necessarily make one happy.

    enough said and good day,
    DR

  • The Me Tree

    I hate getting here late…I basically agree with a bunch of the points above but as usual want to add my personal testimony to affirm and challenge some of them…you guys know I go in so this is pretty long:

    I went to public school in Canarsie when it was Jewish, not Haitian, and was in a “gifted program” (anyone else in Astor/Astral?–SOMEBODY here went to 235 or 114 if not 279 or 276 I bet…). Out of 25 students there were 8 black/other ones including me in my class and the school was comprised of the people in the neighborhood. We were 8 years old so our friendships crossed racial liines easily; much more important was to maintain friendships within our class because failing that, we had to associate with kids who were not “as smart as us”, something few of us were willing to do. (That’s f**ked up too but race never entered the consciousness back then even though we mostly had parents who were various levels of militant and warned us constantly of what we were doing to ourselves…like that brilliant sister Bacisse is doing today)

    After 6th grade I left Canarsie to go to a private school in Bay Ridge that had about 150 black/other kids (out of 700) and by 9th grade, segregation was the norm. We “dark” people exacerbated that signification by maintaining strict rules about who could chill with us in the dark basement outside the girls’ locker room. There were usually 2-3 exceptions a year (white kids we were cool with) but no matter if you were our friend or not, it you were black, we let you live (is that the “unconditional love we should have for our people”?). Even more strict were the rules about the 2 tables near the door in the lunchroom: so strict in fact that some enterprising Italian classmate decided to name it “The N-able”–he even carved it into the wood. He was not disciplined for defacing school property or the “hate speech” (that’s what they called it) although we all got in plenty of troubvle for…asking him what he meant by that (you know what I mean happened to him). He DID have to stand in front of a Black Student Association meeting and apologize. Some punishment for a full-tuition basketball star, huh…nevertheless, the thing that I remember most about race at my school is that except for my very closest friend (she’s Italian) all my friends in high school were non-white and there was Hell to pay among us if you broke that rule–meaning that I had to limit myself to 17% of the school population from which to choose my crew, the people I was with from 830 until 6 (after practice) every day. And I was miserable for most of it.

    When I arrived at my undergrad institution (u may remember from previous posts: 6 black kids, 485 students in my freshman class) I was determined to widen the possibilities of my social circle and frankly, I went VERY hard on that tip. I was something of a whore (a black New Yorker who can sing at a small private college in Pennsylvania is as much a star as Tiger Woods if he tries to be) and had to put up with constant looks from the 18 black women I went to school with. But here’s where it’s crazy. Although I dated my share of white girls (the ones I met in my classes and shows and dorm), I dated 4 black girls (and a couple Dominicans and one Indian–red dot, not feather) in theose 4 years. I DID NOT chill with the black students who generally chose not to associate with the other 97% of the school. But do the math: there were (at an average of 18 per year, with no duplications) about 40 AfAm females who went to school with me there; I dated 10% of them. There were by contrast about 1800 individual white females there at the same time and I dated about 50 of them (in 4 years) or approx. 4%. We’re calling it all dating for this convo from party hook-ups to meeting the (sometimes shocked)parents. I constantly had to defend myself: “What do you want me to only date ya’ll? So should I date every single one of you just so you don’t have to feel some kind of way watching me eat with my white GF?” I never got an answer to that question. Plus, the cats who hung with the black students but then dated almost exclusively white (athletes usually) got a pass from the black women!

    I never understood (Still don’t) why to be with one is alleged to be a reflection of your feelings about the other. How come white women don’t complain when their men date black women as if he is betraying the race–in fact, a white woman who meets one of her own who has some melanin in his past is given extra credit for being worldly and/or adventurous (also kinda f**ked up).

    So why did I say all that? Because the point is (and if we polled everyone here, I bet it would prove it) that as Rastaman said, if your horizons are broadened to include the whole world, your perception of social rights/wrongs will change–especially pertaining to race and culture. I consider myself fortunate to have had white friends when I was young (PS, my closest friend is still an Italian woman, though not the same one from HS) so that I am able to appreciate Metallica with the same ear that loves Stevie. I think it is a positive to have seen a “submissive” white woman (where the hell did that stereotype come from? it is SUCH BS…) call her daughter a c*nt to her face because it made me value my own upbringing by an “agressive”, yet loving black woman who would never have done that to my equally aggressive sister. BTW, my mom did keep her man happy with those “submissive traits”. until he started Pastoring full time and had the time to cook HER dinner every night. I know, I know, lucky me. Trust me, I really know how big that is. And maybe that’s why I am so secure in this race/relationship arena. My current GF is 44yo (my mom is only 49) so she has WAY more problems with my current black mate than she did with my previous colorful ones. That’s Jewish or Italian or Greek or Puerto Rican or Ecuadorian or Trini or Jamaican–it’s all the same to my American parents anyway: NOTBLACK, because “Black” is ONLY American, no diaspora here.
    She eventually came to realize that what I am capable of is choosing mates who have things in common with me (in spite of what may be different about us) andnow leaves me alone abut my dating choices. Maybe Tiger’s problem is that Elin is not a go-getter and he as a result went and got without her (that’s an example of incompatibility, not a theory on the Woods’ problems). Maybe it’s just too bad that we can’t meet our mates with blindfolds on until we acheive compatibility. But maybe we should try. I was accidentally raised to think that is the way because I almost never knew All-black surroundings (the other thing I believe Rastaman is saying) and even if taught to hate white people (which I was a little bit and I still do, a little bit–ask my exes…which is a bit f**ked up, I know) I had daily evidence that we were not all that different.

    Lemme ease your minds before I go: It is and has always been my plan to marry an American Black woman. I got the “If she can’t use your comb…” lecture too. I’m just not gonna limit myself to that choice and we shall see where this artist’s journey takes me. Certainly because of the arts., it’s bound to be a colorful one which makes me think these two points:

    1. People should be with who they are comfortable with and have things in common with. If all you have in common with a person in race, that’s the same thing as nothing especially when compared to having in common interests, background, education, political views, economic status (that one should be first), religious belief, even weight (which speaks to eating habits) in common. Race has the potential to cover some of these things but generally (the way we are having his conversation), it’s meaningless.
    2. Thus, maybe “successful” black men marry white women because that’s who they meet and who runs in their circle. And maybe if that bothers you, your black ass should go join their circle. Just make a couple million dollars and get out there. Or babysit the cat’s co-worker’s kids like Elin did. We love Jay-Z and Beyonce’s relationship but Jay and B married who they met. They just HAPPENED to both be black. But I bet she woulda married me if she’d met me. Unfortunately I’m a couple million short for her cohort. And that’s not her fault.

  • The Me Tree

    Christ, that was a novel. Gotta proofread…

  • Mark

    First off, I would like to say that no matter the color of the women Tiger Woods had been with, cheating is cheating and it will always be unacceptable. If cheating on your wife, someone you claim to love, with ONE girl is a deadly sin, let alone, sleeping with THIRTEEN other chicks. Secondly, would it be any different if Tiger had a love affair with a black woman? I cannot believe so. In my humble opinion, we have to get past the “let’s blame everybody” line and start to think about other people’s character more carefully. In relation to dating outside my race, well, I am Brazilian so I have no race although I look white. Here in Brazil, there is a lot is race mixing and that’s the reason I say no matter what your outside appearance looks like, you will still be mixed. I have dated all types of women: black, white and Latin. As I wrote in the beginning, cheating is cheating and it will always be wrong. Let’s forget all the race issue because what we really have to take into account is that Tiger Woods is a sex addict, period. Just my two cents…

  • Nate

    Tiger is not a sex addict in my opinion. But, in Vegas, and being Tiger Woods, and knowing you get what you want for the asking. Is it any wonder that woman are at the top of the list? Is he (tiger) really any different than any other man in a similar circumstance and situational environment? I think not.

  • taylormade

    I Think you only see white womens face, when some mega-star, athlete, or Afro-american Big Wig, gets caught up, is because these are the works of the media, its an attention grabber, no matter if it was some rich white woman caught with a black man, or some rich black man caught with a white women it draws attention. This is where the racism comes into play, In my opinion, I feel everyone has a bit of racist in them, and for you to see one of your own crossing over, it bothers you just a little bit, even if its dose’nt go past a smart comment or the raise of an eyebrow, it catches your attention for a second. and the media knows how a lot of black women feel about seeing a brother with a white woman just as well as they know about how a white family feels about one of their own bringing a afro-american in to their home or family, it makes either side feel a little uneasy about either situation. So they put a lot of emphasis on the race of the person if its a mixed race. The situation would have not been as big if he was cheating with a black woman, then people would be like “so what” and life goes on, then they have to focus on another attention grabber “what is she/he going to get out of the divorce” to get people interested. so eats all about how people eat it up, so people need to just stick with one of the oldest sayings in the book.”Mind Your Own Business”, and it wouldnt be such a big deal. Im pretty sure these guys that get caught with these white, arent only cheating with white women, thats just the one that the media and the public focus on the most, and as far as every black man wanting a white women goes. Black men want every type of woman, we are not just out hunting like”Im going to talk to her because she is white, because to us, she is just a woman like every other woman we try to talk to, and we really dont give a damn if she’s purple, we just see a woman.

  • Mamie

    Hi my name is Mamie and I am one ignorant Black Bitch from Calgary, Alberta in Canada. I get done right annoyed when people look at me because I think they are being racists and that is due to the paranoia problems I have. As well I can be very rude with people with the use of the “F” word when I don’t get my way and as well I am ignorant and slams as I am like a child with my behavior.

  • Jessica

    WOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW…

    @ ozymandius AND fuckwhitedevils
    ie: All them white girls, they all hoes.. JEEEZZ I think y’all took this to a whole different level.. Im wondering if ur man got snatched by a white gurl that’s why u be hatin so much..
    I really injoy reading all comments but when it comes to ignorant yet quite racist ones, thats when I say that: ur too narrow minded to be joining this type of conversation.
    And YES im europeen.. Italian to be exact.. ;)

  • Shekky Douglass

    LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL @ “race is only as big as you make it”

    so…i guess all those people who make a big deal out of race & (for example) promote racial profiling as a legit solution to any of society’s problems (folks like Limbaugh) are insignificant so long as we plug our ears, close our eyes, and chant “i’m not listening” right?

    some legitimate points. i guess if you write a long enough piece you’ve got to get a couple, yeah? some quick insight on why black women get pissed at us if we choose to date out:

    1) typically the bruh has some dumb stuff to say like “because white women know how to act”

    2) black women are fat / gold diggers / lazy / hard to get along with

    3) see #1 or #2 and extrapolate any number of nasty, unnecessary, and under normal circumstances…patently false statements of a similar nature directed at black females.

    basically, black women get mad because they know most black men don’t date white women because they “love her for who she is as a person.” we seem, by our comments and reasons, to do it as a color-stricken fetish. (you’d be surprised, white girls dating black men, how often this is)

    sorry to be so black and white… don’t shoot the messenger…

    sources: i’m a black man…with black friends…who date white girls…and i hear things.

  • Shekky Douglass

    addendum:

    #2 is an example of some of the crap a lot of black guys say about black women. not something i personally believe.

    also, i’d like to say, this issue is not really relevant. the answer to why they get mad is readily available from asking black women. they aren’t too shy to let you know. and the answers make sense.

  • truthandjusticeforallMBA

    I think the commentator has a very good point in that when you look up, here is some brotha befailing success and there is the white woman. However, I think that it is deeper than that. Which many social networking and news media outlets never commence to true dialog anyway. African men have long been associated with white women in one form or the other, the other being persecuted by lynching for even looking towards a white women piece of a way. And their behavior have always perplexed black women. Also, no, media will never compare black/black relationships in the same context as black/white, because of their (white peoples) ideology that white will always be superiour to Africans, specifically. I also find it interesting that inspite of historically being lynched for looking at a white woman, African men still have an infinity to white women, even at the expense of being dehumanized, killed, and lynched. Furthermore, I often wonder why we as African debate on these types of things, just to be shunned with trival thinking. Or to have truth dismissed, yet never coming to the truth and dismissing the plight of African’s in the Diaspora. Many commentators seem to do that well on social networking sites, yet never compentently bring solutions for African’s. However, this is all commandeered by whites anyway. And we as African/Black will never learn or wake up…

  • BrownBeauty

    I wish I didn’t feel such personal hurt and rejection when I see a Black man involved with a non-black woman, but I do.

    Black men are a lost cause, correction, Most black men are a lost cause and black women need to give up their dreams of marrying and raising a family with a black man, because quite simply the black man is psychologically damage.

    Black men are self-hating individuals who project their self-hate onto black women. Black women are raised in the same society as black men, but you don’t see black women throwing themselves at white men.

  • da ThRONe

    @BrownBeauty

    Why are you grouping such a large number of people together? Second just because it isnt a persons goal to marry within their race and “raise black baby in a black family” doesnt make them broken. Race is what you make it. It can be as minor as the cosmetic differences on the surface or so deep we kill at the sight of another race. I for one only see the cosmetic differences and the cultural ones.

    What difference does it make to you who another person is with? If that person is healthy and happy that should be all that counts. A person who dont allow themselves to be limited to just their race isnt psychologically damage you are for thinking that they are.

  • truthandjusticeforallMBA

    @da ThRONe: See your line of thinking is the core problem in African/Black society. How can African/Blacks assimilate to increase social relations with other males and females, when their is no social contract within our own society. The reason it is this way, is because of self-hate and the caste system structure here in America. Many youth of today, have no knowledge or intellect to see the damaging effects of increased interrelations, especially when so much of our culture, heritage, etc. was taken away and many don’t want to sustain it. However, we absorb ourselves in other cultures and totally dismiss who we are, yet all of the prison systems are filled with the majority of African/Black men, the educational system has totally dummed down our black males and made them absolute servents to the white agenda,,,there is a reason, the majority of black females are more educated than black males, there is a reason why black women are filling corporate offices, there is a reason that prisons are being filled to the rim with African/black males, there is a reason, why the ones that are available go directly to white/dayum near white women; red bones, etc…..it is called genetic inhalation. It is obviouse the modern subjugated black man doesn’t see this, but you know that is the intent of the white agenda anyway…All black men have failed black women so why should we want you anyway…

  • N2Deep

    @truthandjusticeforallMBA and BrownBeauty

    I’m sorry you feel the way that you do but your comments show exactly why the problem exists. You condemned the black man to being a lost cause without any real reason. You say most black women are more educated or that black men are psychollogically damaged but what is your personal contribution to their change. How many guys have you talked to or liked just because they were cool or played ball or they swag was on? How many did you talk to because they appeared intelligent? Key word being APPEARED. The thing about a lot of women who can’t find this good brother is because they have cloudy vision. You really should take Da Throne’s advice because he is just offering women like you an alternative. You already gave up on Black Men so why not involve yourself with another race? Give them the chance to heal you. That’s better than being Angry!!!

    • Blaquelovely1

      Just as no one has the right to choose who you date/marry, it is completely inappropriate to suggest that Black Women date/marry white men especially to heal themselves. Women don’t need men to heal them because they are whole beings and their healing power comes from within. It does not lie within a man.

      Additionally, Black women would have less of an issue with Black men dating other women if not for the historical issues of racism and mistreatment in this To add insult to injury Black men have internalized all of this BS and use it as a justification for being with other women. All they can offer are racist stereotypes and are not fair to Black women while giving other women a pass. If Black Women are angry, the way Black Men treat Black Women is the reason, and they need to heal themselves because no one else care.

      All these all-inclusive people can go sell that to somewhere else because that is not the topic. It goes off on a tangent.

  • Shekky Douglass

    @ Brown Beauty

    you’re so wrong. keep your head up miss lady. things will turn around. we aren’t all chasing white girls. but you do too see black women throwing themselves at white boys. increasingly so. and it’s hilarious, particularly when you know said white boy is planning to use her as a cum dumpster and keep it moving. so much for her “black queenly” pride eh?

    @ whoever said white women don’t get pissed:

    what rock are you hiding under? white women give their men THE EXACT SAME BUSINESS if they see them with another color girl. and so do white men. last time i checked Italians were just as bad as black people. Jewish people too.

    fact is: there is NOTHING wrong with racial identity, and the majority of people not only identify with their race but want someone they identify with. and across the board there IS a sense of rejection when you see someone dating out. some ppl just don’t care, and some ppl pretend they dont, but most do feel it, even if they don’t say anything about it.

    also, has anybody checked into the kind of vitriol spewed in the asian communities? it’s definitely more harsh than the war between black men and black women. yet for some reason media outlets would have you believe black men and women are the only ones who can’t get along.

  • Shekky Douglass

    also, for all the bullshit lipservice from interracial dating advocates about how much they love diversity blah blah blah, you’d think those people would understand the point of people who say they want someone who shares the same cultural heritage as them. say IR dating actually got legs (bc right now it’s more rare than you’d be led to believe if you watch too much tv, spend too much time in cali, or read too much topix.com)…now everyone’s the same shade of gray across the board. there goes your diversity IR advocates…now what do you do for the “skin contrast” or the “something new” that you crave? if there the next wave is a push to increase interspecies dating i will lol then kill myself…just sayin…

  • N2Deep

    @truthandjusticeforallMBA

    I had to comment about the educational system being dummed down for black males because your reason was unfounded. The reason the system was dummed down was less black and white and more about the GREEN! Lets be 100 about it. These institutions are competing for money. Everything about them costs so more students equals more money. Let’s look at the NCAA’s largest sources of revenue, football and basketball. Get it?

    We as a race of people have had to strive for equality for all of our existence in US history and we have yet to strive as one. This is not something new so to expect it to happen immediately is unreal.

    We need all these educated women to be as persistent and patient with their male counterparts as they are with their male counterparts. By this I mean to get a doctorate you have to attend school for a minimum of 6 years depending on the course of study, but how long are you willing to give your “Black Male” to get it together? If we are willing to give each other that time we can succeed in life. Usually at the end of our “Education” we still have to get out in the world and prove ourselves so having the “Education” just means you went to school. It is nothing automatic!! And that’s for all races!

  • truthandjusticeforallMBA

    @N2Deep: I have condemed the African/Black men for good reason. They condemed themselves when that allowed and continue to allow the white male to subjugate them in American society. And for the record African women are more educated than her counterpart, this is not by her doing it is by design; social policy fermented by the white agenda. You tell me why the percentages between for African men receiving degress are lower than African women…what could be the cause? Tell me why 17-20 plus unemployment rates are the highest for African males?

    You fail to see the biger picture in scope and size…During the 18th and 19th Century, white people have been concocting ways and shaped the progressive downward spiral for African men and women; to curb our population growth. Please read the Negro Project.

    My personal contribution is to first wake myself up, which I have and then family, they friends, etc. If I send information and seeds of consciousness to my people and they do not receive it, then what…I like venues like this because I have a chance to open eyes of those who read my commentary on social networking sites like this and this too is another media vehicle to get the message out. So, I try. I am always encouraging strangers, friends, and family to wake up. I can lead a horse to the water well, but I can not make him or her for that matter drink and gain consciousness.

    Furthermore, I do not have cloudy vision. My eyes are wide open, however, many brothers are not. Also, I am not angry. What good would being angry do me. I am just stating the realities of the world. To bad it seems that you can’t handle the truth, brotha…Additionally, unlike African/black men, I see no need to date outside my race, it is unnatural to me, there is no man for me other than what the Universe created for me and that is an African man.

    Many African scholars will attest to the mental state of African men/males and females, especially in modern times. Our African society is suffering from Menticide. Dr. Na’im Akbar, who is a renouned African Clinical Psychologist states that men are suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and mentally dead, Minister Farrakhan states the same. He and his collegues offer assistance to African men/males is how to make change. You ask how what are my solutions…the way African men can first fix their problems is to first begin by identifying the issues that are plaguing them today as a consequence of the past. Stop listening to white people, they are the reason we are in the condition we are in today. Matter of fact, why don’t you go ask white people to help African men to fix their problems, in fact why don’t you ask the whole entire white population and their direct decendants to fix our the problems they have benefited from and helped to create for our African society???? Instead of asking African women to fix African men’s problems or just simply date the enemy.

    iI suggest whomever is reading this google the following and listen to what is being discussed and deactivate your Willie Lynch Chip (Dr. Hagins) to educate and enlighten African men; Minister Farrakhan, Dr. Na’im Akbar, Dr. Barashango, Dr. Ray Hagins, Dr. Ben, Dr. Frances Cress Welsing, etc. have all given us the keys…African Psychology Journals offer insight into who we are as an African people, what has happened to us to date,. In fact, you should read Juwanzza Konjufu, and I really recommend Dr. Na’im Akbar’s book Breaking the Chains of Psychological Slavery.

  • Shekky Douglass

    @ truthandjusticeforallMBA

    ok…so you say white people came up with, and implemented a whole bunch of ways to prevent black progress (an assertion i don’t necessarily disagree with), then proceed to “condemn black men” for basically falling into the trap.

    doesn’t that mean you’re doing your part of falling into the trap too? the only thing that surprises me more than the loser, failure, white girl chasing attitude currently prevalent among my black bruhs USED to be the sheer grit black women displayed in sticking with us. now that grit has been replaced with a real desire to chase white men and/or kick dirt on black men despite the fact that there are plenty of us out here handling grown man business.

    that was a long-ass msg you wrote sis. make sure you take it to heart too. make sure you’re not falling into the traps you warned about too. more positivity. less negativity, yknow?

  • Shekky Douglass

    @ truthandjusticeforallMBA

    also, thanks for the sources to read. interesting stuff…

    hmmmmmmmm…..

    *head turning into an upside-down triangle*

  • http://jaronrecords@hotmail.com N2Deep

    @truthandjusticeforallMBA

    We inherited every problem that we face today with the resources to make change. This is something that we have to come together and resolve. You listed great and diverse resources for information and now it’s up to us to draw the answers for change. You speak of Willie Lynch and your words are making true the purpose of Willie Lynch. I’m not saying it is intentional, I’m just saying when you say black men need to do this and that it creates separtism. That is what Willie Lynch intended to do. I feel the black women plays a vital role because black man or black woman, neither can be birthed without a WOMAN. This should show that we need to work together to create change because we need each other to procreate and the less we work together the less we will create change or a new generation of young blacks.

    There are so many things that effect our education and unemployment issues. You have a lot more young black males that fall into making fast money to help in broken homes or other situations. Some drop out of school and just take to the streetlife. Some try to straighten up but can’t make it on a limited education or get frustrated with minimum wage when they were use to making quick money. That isn’t an excuse its just facts.

    You have a lot of our black males that benefit the institutions in sports while receiving an opportunity for an education. The bad thing is that a lot of our black atheletes goal is to reach the pro level so education is not number one. Even if they do not go pro they do not benefit from the millions of dollars they helped generate their institutions.

    As far as handling the truth I am all about it SistaH… LOL I just believe that nothing is onesided. We were created to be together so it’s on us.

    Let me address about listening to white people. I was always taught that if something works then you should find out why or how. If you want to be a surgeon would you ask a musician how to operate? You can learn from everyone. If white people got it so down then why don’t we?

    Keep posting

  • Elle

    I love how strangers who are looking from the OUTSIDE at a relationship tell interracial couples what the real reasons are that they are together.

    Self hate? Right. Submission? Um yea. Tell Tiger’s golf club swinging (ex?) wife that she should be more submissive since she’s a white woman.

    :|

    You do not know the people you are judging merely based on their apperance. What makes them bond? Why do they find solace in being with each other? What is their ethnical background to begin with? With most folks these days you can’t even tell. Ergo: You simply have no clue. If love doesn’t go deeper than the skin for you, fine. Whatever works best for you. But don’t make an ass out of yourself by assuming this line of thinking is the ultimate truth.

    We all date based on availability. Or in other words: we normally fall in love with someone who actually wants us.
    So are you seriously telling me that some black men should remain single for the rest of their time on earth because they are only supposed to be marrying black women even if these same black women may not even want them???

    People in general base their dating choice on weird criteria in this day and age. I say “weird” because most of them are of no significance to a person’s ability to be a wonderful life partner, hollow criteria really. A degree, good credit or the color of your skin have no bearing on how a person will treat you. Why put so much emphasize on it?
    “Soft skills” are what should matter in our relationship choices – maybe then divorce rates wouldn’t be sky rocketing.
    We should all try to hold on to the person who can make us feel like we’re “coming home” no matter what he or she looks like.

    I refuse to set myself up for ending up in a potentially unhappy relationship because I settled for fishing in a smaller than necessary pond just so the men have a certain appearance.
    I want that ONE. With 6.5 billion people on this earth it is hard enough to find him. What’s the likelihood of him not only being of the same ethnicity but also living in the same zip code, country or even continent? By mathematical standards the odds are against us finding the one. Why make it even harder by adding artificial hurdles?

    Everyone should do what works best for them. I’m a passionate advocate of “live and let live”. But I expect the same in return and I find it highly amusing when strangers have the audacity to tell me why I am in love with/engaged/married to the man of my choice. I love it. You’re selling “your” black men short if you think they are dumb enough to be in committed relationships and marriages for all the wrong reasons. Give them more credit to know what’s best for them individually.

  • da ThRONe

    I would agree with anybody who question the education system especially where Im from(New Orleans). I would agree that we have idenity problem as a race(but all races do). I hate the idea that a black person wanna date a white person because he/she think that there is something wrong with their or other races. There are no race predisposed to anything. Character is a product of your personailty but mostly your upbring. And anybody who say differ shows just how uneducated they are.

    There are certain things that are done that cant be undone. We can never get are true culture(not sure if we would want to) back. Most of us are mix with some form of European blood anyways. Some are speaking about education but that some group should seek some knowledge themselves. When I was younger it would kill me to see black women with white men ,but as I got older and more mature I realized some things are not my business. Futher more I know nothing about the people I was jugding and what their lives are like. All you can do is control your life in your personal pursuit for happiness. Why let others affect you negatively for no reason? Just because 55% of black women are golddiggers does that all black women golddiggers? All pro-black people are about 500 years too late to start saving the purity of African slaves. We as black Americans are a whole new race altogether to be honest. Most Africans dont even look or act like us(for the most part). And if you were able to track down your roots and move back to Africa you would not fit in because your not an African your an American with mostly African decent(or atleast the majority of Black Americans).

    What is your issue? Love is Love and if you can find it outside your race why purposely deny yourself? I serious doubt that I will ever date outside my race. I feel I can only have enough connection to a sista. But if some white, brown, red or yellow(or any variation of those colors*hey Lulu*) lady proves me wrong Im going accept love as if it was of my own race.

    The bottom line is some problem are completely out of our hands and a solution will not be easy . Then there are some problem we manifest ourselves. Dont go through life making things harder then they have too be.

  • Shekky Douglass

    @ da ThRONe

    bruh, you and i both know this whole interracial phenomenon has nothing to do with people just accidentally stumbling across love with another race.

    black men overwhelmingly date and marry black women…until success is thrown into the mix. and the same is beginning to go for black women too. it’s funny. when i was younger i was poor, ZERO white girls were coming around, and ZERO black females were on that bs thinking a white boy could treat them better. but as i’ve grown and become more successful, i’ve seen that mentality grow into my peer group. IR dating seems no more genuine to me than buying a Rolls claiming you “need something to get around in” lol.

    the bullshit about “love is love no matter where you find it” is that it’s a fairytale view on love. there is no “one true love” for anyone. instead, there’s a subset of the human population that an individual could be compatible with if they chose to put in the required work. love is work in the real world, and you find love where you *choose* to work hard enough create it. there isn’t a couple alive that hasn’t discovered how hard it is to make real & lasting love happen. these black men and women who *choose* to find someone of another color to work at love for, really are making a decision to do so, no matter how much Disney might want us to believe otherwise. nothing spontaneous about it. what you’re talking about could more accurately be described as lust.

    is all that to say genuine IR love isn’t possible? hell no. but it is to say there’s positively nothing spontaneous about love, and that it’s very suspect to me that less successful black people don’t tend to “accidentally stumble across IR love” nearly as much as successful ones do…

  • Shekky Douglass

    second half:

    (y’all thought i was off my soap box huh?)

    to me the trend of more successful black people to chase after white people for mates, taken with the reasons commonly stated by black folks for dating out, strongly indicates some kind of ridiculous notion that “you really made it” when you’re banging a white girl or that “you’re really somebody” if you can even get a white guy to notice you.

    this is not something to just shrug your shoulders at and act like all is right with the world. legitimate IR relationships would be, but the aforementioned attitude is definitely not. personally, it makes me worry that black people are currently in the kind of identity crisis that could separate successful black people from their communities and cause poor black people to actively avoid becoming like those successful black people for fear of no longer “bein real ni**az.” it causes me to worry what kind of lives little black kids in the future will have with absolutely -no- community (as opposed to the limited one we currently have) to nurture them, in a society that really has the deck stacked against them.

    and for anyone who’d say a black community isn’t important…or that it’s racist…or any kind of crap like that:

    1) i don’t hear anyone saying that about the Jewish community, latin communities, asian communities, etc etc etc. stfu…

    2) has anyone seen how long it takes the people from one of the aforementioned communities to move into town, set up shop, and support each other to success? they do it damn fast if you haven’t. it’s something everyone should see.

    it’s not that i’m against legit IR love if it should happen. but look at the percentages of it and the attitudes toward it in other communities. the black community, asian, and puerto rican women seem to be the only ones goading each other into it as if it’s the solution to their ills. and it’s unhealthy, pitiful, and in poor form.

  • Shekky Douglass

    oops. 1st paragraph above came out of my head and off my fingers wrong lol. the tendency for black females is to act as if they’ve outgrown black men. like there just aren’t enough black men on their level…they’re just so high-up and advanced that they must, by necessity, date out. otherwise they’re denying themselves love… it’s horse crap…

  • N2Deep

    “Soft skills” are what should matter in our relationship choices – maybe then divorce rates wouldn’t be sky rocketing.
    We should all try to hold on to the person who can make us feel like we’re “coming home” no matter what he or she looks like.

    @Elle

    I agree with your argument but I want to point out what stuck out to me. The statement above is where the problem lies. Everything that says what should is usually what is not happening.

    I think people have opinions about what is going on with the Tiger story but not just judging the people involved. I don’t know Tiger myself but I do know Elijah and Tim. They are black and date white women. Elijah is my boy and the young lady he was dating was really nice and good for him. She was straight up and didn’t play no games but she encouraged and supported what he was trying to do but he didn’t end up with her. I told him that she was good for him but he ended up marrying a black woman who basically brought him down. Tim married a white woman but cheated on her with black women. His wife was helping him pay one of the ladies car notes. I told him that wasn’t cool but she let him get away with it.

    Like I said I don’t know tiger but I know April who is my friend and she dates black guys only. She is so sweet but she don’t play cause if she gotta get that ass she will. She talks to me about some of the relationships she has been in so I can speak from my experiences.

  • truthandjusticeforallMBA

    The topic of the discussion is “Do All African men want a white women?”

    From my speculation, no, not All African men want a white woman, especially and African Conscious man. However, each generation is becoming more and more interested in dating white women and marrying white women.

    Furthermore, as African men date white women they are disassociating themselves with their own African heritage, culture, etc., as well as bashing African women in the process.

    Therefore, it seems that most affluent African men in the areas of entertainment and sports, etc. are by social appearence dictating what the perceived status quo of relationships should be, which is being in a mixed society is better than accepting and building up their own African society.

    This type of attitude is creating a whole new group in society, that is caught in the middle of a race war that has been since enslavement. Furthermore, it is apparent that these mixed children will ultimately, the majority, side with the white race as I have seen countless documentaries on mixed race peoples saying that they do not want to be identified as being African. And ultimately, the impact is but again placing the African man and woman at the bottom of society caste system. Again, who benefits…certainly not Africans.

    I personally do not feel that our African race should mix with anybody, however, we do, but at what cost is this to the African man and woman? Why is it that we are always the ones mixing with other races? Why, can someone please answer this question. Why are we always placed in a position of beggars to a false, psychopathic narcissitic superior white society.

    Intergration has a negative impact or the middle-class and lower-class African nuclear family to pathalogically fantasize and ultimately assimilate into white society. Since intergration this has been the wishes of many socially affluent Africans in America.

    The benefit of intergration is the destruction of the core African family structure. And when you look at the structure of the nuclear African family, you see there is no African family structure.

    I have come to the realization that we are simply doomed as African’s, especially African women…and that goes for us African women here in Amerikkka and in our homeland Kemet.

    As for Tiger Woods, he is not African, he is white and he is dating white women exclusively and that is what he wants and it has nothing to do with me; what happened to him is what happened to him. He is not putting any food in my mouth. He lacks consciousness as most of these affluent men. I do not feel sorry for him, nor do I feel sorry for these affluent ‘black’ men who date white women and find themselves in a heap of trouble or death, because they can’t keep their Douou in their pants, etc. It is what they get and they deserve it…they like it, I love it.

    Ase’

  • da ThRONe

    @truthandjusticeforallMBA

    Why do you take it so personal? Im black and if a black person wins the lotto I dont take it as a since of pride. I will admit having a Obama(although mixed idenitfy with black people) get elect was a slight thrill. I dont just root for people because their black(although it does sometimes factor into the people I support).

    And whats with the African thing? Like it or not as of now Im American not African never been to Africa. Even my blood isnt 100% African.

    What you fail to realize is that both races of an interacial mating is mixing. Meaning if the black part dies so does the white part. If anything by law mixed(black and white) offsprings are black by law *I could be wrong*. So if anything interacial mating is killing the white race not the black one.

  • Jessica

    Excuse me..Have y’all forgoten that M. Obama is of an interacial marriage..Father from Kenya and Mother is a white female from Kansas..
    Now knowing this.. Did the race issue come in affect when we decided to vote for him…NOOOOOOOOOOOO it was all about the first African president to be elected..Now many took Pride in that..And now here u are saying that Black is this and white is that and purple is suchh..Like c’mon..Race comes into affect when most convinient to people..Yall taking like a bunch of hypocrites

  • older & wiser

    @ DC man, thanks for the heads up on the article. I looked it up and was glad to read a “sane” view on this matter.

    Personally, I feel that Tiger and his wife’s bizness neither adds to or subtracts from my own life, so to each his own. I hope it still works out for them and that they don’t let the media wreck their chances of a reconciliation. Infidelity doesn’t HAVE TO end a marriage; it can work out, if they both want it to.

  • Anonymous

    Personally, I’m sick and tired of seeing white trash women with black men. Why is it that they are so attracted to our race instead of wanting to go after their own (like they should). To me, I guess I’m old fashioned because I believe that each race is best when they date their own. I HATE seeing tired, white bitches with our black men. And in my opinion black men who are with white women are with them because of one main reason…self hatred!!! And white women who are with our black men are with them because they are too pathetic to get a man of their own race!!!

  • T

    No not all black men want white women…i work in germany now…and i see that dating someone that isn’t of the same race is cool…and some even get married…but where i’m from (Atlanta) its not always a good thing…

  • Sandra

    It’s all about the ideal physical attributes which have been shove down our throats, well actually everyone throats by the media. The ideal beauty of long flowing hair, light skin, European features etc…. which we do not fit. I mean even all the music videos; even the rap ones use these women to promote their songs. It just shows. I just believe that there is the negative stereotype and I believe it is coming it for the black community itself as saying that black women are too dark, ugly, weave wearing, loud mouth people.

    But maybe I am being to harsh.

  • Jazzie

    I have to say that I actually agree with this reader. I mean one Robin Givans can’t add up for all those white women. I mean seriously! And besides that was years ago. How many black men have fallen to the grips of white women and either have been killed, arrested, broke etc. Chris and Rihanna will probably carry us for another 10 years. I am of mixed heritage and I must say that AI define who i am. But sometimes you just have to call it like you see it. It seems like only Caribbean black men respect the struggles of the black woman. I went to alot of schools and not once did I ever learn about the truth of blacks history. Its like the white school president says this is out and it is. It sounds so harsh but its the truth. I must say that I don’t care who you are or of what race you are, if your a cool person then we can hang. So maybe its time that people start realising that whites do see things differently than blacks. Befote you judge a guy with a hoodie on as being ghetto maybe you should listen to him speak. i get judge constantly and i can tell you it hurts when because my hair got wet and it may have some kinks that I’m ghetto. Racism didn’t leave when we threw slavery out.

  • Jazzie

    oh and yeah I could’t give a dam about Tiger Woods because he is an idiot. How the hell can you say you despise black women? I mean seriously. I hate a cuban ex boyfriend that used to dis cuban women and thats something i can’t deal with. seriously why would you want to hurt your heritage/

  • Elle

    @N2Deep

    What lesson was I supposed to take from your examples of Tim, Elijah and April?

    I am sorry but it went right over my head.

    Certainly I cannot and will not talk for all interracial relationships. But being that I am a product of a family which can easily be called the UN and having been in interracial relationships myself I can say about my very own and very personal experiences that it had nothing to do with seeking a certain race out because of reason XYZ – neither on my part nor on theirs. It was merely about falling in love with somebody who you could relate to on most if not all levels. If some folks travelled a little more they’d know that life in the western world is pretty much the same wherever you go – hence experiences, upbringing, childhood memories, likes, dislikes do not differ as much as one likes to think.

    And to whoever said interracial relationships occur as soon as a black man has a little money:
    again, I can’t and won’t talk for others but in my case that’s BS. My ex-fiancé had a job not a career, travelled by bus not by car … you catch my drift.

    Personally I criticize racism/separatism from whatever side it comes … Asians, Latins included. I do not understand the concept, never have, never will. Mainly because I refuse to choose a side. I embrace all bloods I was made of. More so I embrace all ethnicities, cultures, religions as not only my family consists of them but even my “handpicked family” (read: friends) comes in all colors, shapes, sizes, faiths, backgrounds, genders, sexual orientations and such.

    While we are all entitled to our opinions. But opinions are just that – not facts that some people are trying to sell them as.

  • Pingback: Would You Break Up A Marriage? — theFreshXpress.com — The PULSE of Young Black America()

  • Denesha Sheree Stamps

    At the end of the day the picture painted of African American Women by every race is always negative. We are the only race who blast eachother in the public eye, waiting on someone to fix the deep rooted problem between us. Im tired of seeing bs articles on how we are the last to get married also. Id rather be single and happy then to rush into a fairy tail that was painted for us since we were little girls. I do not fault other races for The black mans down fall, I fault him. Black Women have been the care takers of the world since we stepped foot on this earth and just because a few sistas act up we are thrown under the bus by our own, who also allows other nationalities to put us down as well. Everyone wants the style and body of a sista but dont want to carry the torch of being an african american women. Its time we start flooding the internet with positive things about black love.. As for Tiger o well, the only person he owes an apology to is God and his wife.. however I think a sista would have dealt with it in a different way….but hey to each its own.. There is nothing like being in the arms of a Black Man…

  • Nikki

    It’s ridulous to say that black men cheat because white women are too controlling. 1) A cheater is a cheater, even if he is married to a saintly woman. 2) White women may have their insecurities and relationhip complaints but black women do their share of controlling too, often with much more than words. Maybe these men need to fear the wrath of a strong women who will take them down if they ever stray.

  • YU

    I disagree that because a black man chooses to be with a white woman that it confirms a “certain belief.” If black choice to be with white person = a certain belief, then what does black choice to be with yellow person equal? Or what does black choice to be with red person equal? What does it mean when Euro person chooses African person? Or Italian person chooses Hispanic person? I think that’s just ridiculous. So many things predicate why someone chooses to be with someone else. I have chosen to “be” with many cultures in my lifetime. I have dated white men, married an Bengali man, date nobody for a long time and then chose to date a hispanic man, only now choosing to date an African man (from Africa) by way of Holland, with his citizenship here in America (all without marrying me to get it), and what does all of that equal? I believe that it confirms that I just dig humanity, period. It confirms that, for me, humans are very interesting, cultures different than mine are exciting, interesting, different, and perfectly wonderful to explore and enjoy and exchange traditions and rituals and beliefs with. I truly believe that people become pulled in to particular perceptions that somehow suit what they NEED to believe at the time, for whatever reason. There are so many things that pre-empt somebody’s belief system. How can we say that because someone engages in a particular behavior, and CHOOSES to do something, that THAT somehow categorizes them as a person who only thinks one way and doesn’t think another? I just wish we could look at human beings as human beings without humanistic borders, but instead look at each other as all really similar in so many ways. Just because we may cook our food differently, eat with utensils, or eat with our fingers, fry our food, or eat mainly fish, speak languages that we cannot understand and/or engage in rituals that are slightly different than one another—we’re all really and truly the same. We all worship a higher power (for the most part), we all have to eat, we all have to bathe, we all procreate, every culture does the very same things. It’s just super-duper ridiculous to erect useless borders that do nothing but breed hatred among humans, all over the world. ..can we all just say, “koombi-yaa..” hold hands, and be nice to one another. ..and if someone screws around on their partner, I don’t care WHAT color they are—can’t we all just agree that it’s a damn shame that someone behaved like that and speak to the ethics and immorality of the behavior instead of committing another heinous act of hatred and start ripping the person apart, or the poor spouse who got her ass cheated on a 1,000 times? ..ha, c’mon people. Haven’t we grown up at all over the last century? If ANYONE’s turning over in their grave it’s ML King.. Mother Theresa, Nelson Mandela.. God..

  • YU

    I agree soooo much with your statement that our focus on the “racism card colors our every perception and skewers our moral compass.” You are so correct in your point that everyone, of every color, AND OF BOTH SEXES, cheats. No culture is without that experience and how audacious to presume that a particular race is more valuable because of this, or that, or the other. There is nothing in this world that could ever equal one race or culture being more valuable than another. Because one country or one culture is more dominant, more powerful, more progressive, only equals one thing to me—that they have more resources than the others because typically they were more powerful and bullied their way in the process of gaining power over the other races and cultures. Money and power is the ONLY thing that makes a culture/country more powerful than another. If you stripped the money in this world away, you’d strip away the power as well, and if that country/culture didn’t have all the money and power, then what? We’d all be back to a level playing field and we’d be the same. I believe that politics and the drive to own all the resources available in this world = human beings behaving badly. Human beings do crazy things in their efforts to be better and stronger and have more than others. Competition is innate in humans and breeds conflict between humans and I believe that racism lies therein and is the foundation of that collective motive. It’s easy to look at other people/cultures/traditions/differences/belief-systems/rituals as “bad” or beneath us, or somehow less than worthy, when your motive is to gain power and/or establish a collective social-esteem. Racism is bred out of an evident inept collective group or social-esteem, which is bred out of an evident collective group of individual self-esteems. It starts with a self-PERCEPTION that believes that more power and more money will make THEM more powerful and more advanced. And when that person believes that way through that perception then their behavior will represent that belief. ..and they’ll go along and find others who believe that way, and eventually have a collective social-esteem that is motivated towards the same thing—gaining power, money, status, at the expense of someone else. They honestly believe that by DE-valuing someone else, or another culture/group of “elses,” that they will gain esteem/power/growth/more resources. So all it takes is for that to be in motion and bam, we have racism. And of course this exists among ALL cultures and races. It’s never just a “black/white” thing. It’s a human being thing. We will never break it down and see it for what it is if we don’t see that humans are no different than one another. Rastaman said it best, we have to get to know the PERSON, regardless of what soil they walked to you from. And he said BEST when he said that we need to stop trying to change others to be like ourselves. This is not just for women to do, as Rastaman would have us believe, but this is for ALL of humanity. STop judging. Accept differences between us. Look at anothers choices and behaviors and thoughts and feelings as THEIRS. It has nothing to do with you if someone else thinks/feels/behaves a certain way. Choices that we make are pre-empted and precipitated by our PERCEPTIONS, which are created from a lifetime of bullshit conditioning that happened by generational transmissions before us, all culminating into our own mind. If I can be responsible for me, and my own thoughts/feelings/behaviors/perceptions, and if I can keep my ass out of judgment, and I can open myself up to love someone else BECAUSE they are different, not because they’re just like me, then, I believe I will have passed on a good message to my child.

  • Firstladbrett1953

    As a black man who,rather than the sort of stereotypical “urban”,”street” and even
    “thug” sort who seems to interest black women,is a black sort-I listen to heavy metal,
    garage rock,enjoy Country music,dancing-EXCEPT LINE DANCING!!!!-rodeo-though none exists in or near my life-long Windsor,Ont.,Can. resident of handsome black cowboy-I even sometimes wear Western duds and a lot of the (buxom blonde between 24 and 42;I’m 58)
    ladies say I look great IN them AND EVEN BETTER OUT OF THEM-most black women
    aren’t interested in me.Add that most are fat,fugly,frigid,b***hy or,in a lot of cases,ALL FOUR,andyou can see why this black Canadian lad like white ladies!!!

  • Anonymous

    Negroid males apparently don’t feel as if they are real men unless they are cheating on their black women with white women. Now Tiger isn’t negroid. He’s caucasion, black, Indian (Native American) and Asian and appears to be a sex addict.