Career > Marriage (What Working Women Sacrifice)

0 Posted by - May 18, 2010 - Guest Socks, Love & Basketball, Relationships, Love & Marriage

working-mom

WORDS BY BBD

A few weeks back, NWSO did a weeklong series on the Love & Basketball, where I made a comment that I wanted to elaborate on as a guest blogger. So here it is:

When I watched the last scene of Love & Basketball with Quincy on the sidelines holding their baby girl and Monica playing basketball, my heart leapt at the visual of actually seeing a relationship work out in favor of the woman. She got to have a career, be a mom and the husband supported her by being the baby’s caregiver for the family! At the time, it wasn’t the norm to see this type of role reversal live and in living color on the big screen. It affirmed my expectation of having a nurturing husband for my children as not being that wild of an idea after all. I could point to the possibility of a balanced life of career and family as a reality because we saw it played out on the silver screen in L&B.

That image was powerful for me and my husband as a young couple who wanted to support each other professionally, but didn’t know how to do that and have a family, too. We knew that a nurturing relationship with our children would require lots of time together pouring our value system into them and one of us would have to give up their career or find one that was kid-friendly. The struggle for balance between love and careers was played out before us in this movie and was positively resolved so we knew it was a possibility and went for it!

When L&B came out 10 years ago, there were few examples of women successfully managing the demands of work and family. The idea of “bringing home the bacon and frying it up in the pan” had been explored on television sitcoms, but real life examples that regular folk like ourselves could relate to weren’t so plentiful. In my own circle I didn’t find good examples of balance between professional workingwomen with their family obligations. I saw stay-at-home moms holding it down on the home front or dads who were successful at their jobs (because the women took care of the home) but no examples of a woman who had both a successful career and a supportive husband.

The married women I knew had to choose one life or the other. If they became moms they decided to give up their professional careers to stay at home to raise their children. Other married women who had successful careers sacrificed their marital relationships in the process. They were awesome moms but not as successful at being wives.

There’s a big difference.

It’s easier today to find examples of successful men with intact families, but when you find successful women it’s usually at the expense of having a husband and family. They are either single, never married or married briefly and now divorced. Why is it harder to find good examples of successful women still with their original families or even with a family? Why does it seem like women have to choose one or the other? Men can have both a successful career and family, but women usually climb the ladder of success alone or childless.

Most romantic movies about single women show them being successful, without children and no one to come home to but a cat or dog. A successful family life is put on hold until they meet Mr. Right and get married, then the second half or the other part of their lives can begin with a husband and children. When we look at men, they can have it all at the same time without the marriage penalty. As a matter of fact it’s favorable for them to be looked upon as family men. So when I saw Love & Basketball work out the conflict in favor of the woman, I felt like liberation had finally come to the masses.

Well, at least that’s how I saw it.

Why is it an “acceptable” loss for women to be successful and alone while men are often able to maintain their career and family? Do you think it’s still rare for a man to take care of the family and take a backseat to his wife’s career? Do you think it’s possible for a career-driven women to juggle family and work? Or are women with ambition doomed to be successful and alone or at higher risk for divorce? Would you be willing to sacrifice having kids just to maintain a happy marriage and career? How many successful people do you know that actually have successful relationships? Would you rather be a good husband/wife or a father/mother?

Speak your piece…

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  • da ThRONe(back home)

    Sometime ago I would have choose good parent. But lately I think your commitment to your spouse superceed being a parent. But really both are closely related. Espacially if you are married to your kids other parent.

  • Ravena

    Being a parent comes first. As a parent you have a responsibility to nurture, love and teach an innocent being, so they can become a productive member of society, care about their fellow man and all the other important STUFF. That will always be more important than a relationship. Committed, married, or shacking.

    Do I even have to say that a kid is yours forever and a relationship can be here today…

    Sometimes I think I want the career over a marriage and somedays I think I just want to be(in the future) a good wife who supports her husband.

    Is it possible to have both? I don’t think so. I think one or the other will eventually suffer. It just depends on what you want and what is important to you.

    Its hard to give a husband(not to mention kids LAAAWD) all your attention if you’re working 80 hours a week. Thats just the facts. I also think thats why its better to have children married and later in life but thats an entirely different topic…

    I would love both but I think that is just unrealistic. Something will have to give in one area or another.

  • lola289

    *Why is it an “acceptable” loss for women to be successful and alone while men are often able to maintain their career and family?

    Because a lot of ppl have beliefs toward gender roles; and if someone chooses to step outside of the box then its can be hard for the other (mate) to accept it.

    *Do you think it’s still rare for a man to take care of the family and take a backseat to his wife’s career?
    I think it’s rare…possible, but rare

    *Do you think it’s possible for a career-driven woman to juggle family and work?
    Or are women with ambition doomed to be successful and alone or at higher risk for divorce?

    I think anything’s possible…when a woman is involved! But that may sound biased!
    It just takes time and patience on both sides and communication and commitment!

    *Would you be willing to sacrifice having kids just to maintain a happy marriage and career?

    I don’t know…I’d sacrifice marriage prolly.

    *How many successful people do you know that actually have successful relationships?

    A couple…but I don’t know what’s happening behind closed doors!

    *Would you rather be a good husband/wife or a father/mother?

    I was raised by a single mother so I know it’s a HARD job to do it alone.
    But our relationship is the reason why I’d rather be a good mom :-)

  • lola289

    BTW.. good work BBD!
    Ima be thinking about this topic all day!

  • http://whetheryoulikeitornot.wordpress.com booboonotthefool

    I def think it depends on what career you are in. I work in health care and most allied health professionals can work half days or PRN without being frowned upon.

    Still, I can see where this comes from. I feel like this is especially true for people working in the business world, quite possibly true for doctors and lawyers as well.

    I’ll also say I don’t think it’s “acceptable” for women to be successful and alone. Those same women go back to their families/friends and are asked when they are going to settle down and start a family. I do agree with Lola though-it’s certainly about the gender roles; women are nurturers and willing to sacrifice for their kids, as seen by the number of single mothers- Momma’s baby, Poppa’s maybe will always be true. because society has “accepted” a more peripheral role for fathers.

    Good topic

  • QuoteMan

    @da ThRONe

    Correct me if I’m wrong, did you just say your commitment to your spouse supersedes that of being a parent?

    Supersede?

    Make no mistake, I respect the commitment to the spouse point you’re trying to make or “feeling” but nothing should supersede being a parent. Not even the job of running a nation.

  • paulette_bajan_gal

    The problem is men…most husbands continue to work late and/or choose schedules counter to childcare.A recent survey showed that women still manage the bulk of the household responsibilities even with a grown ass man in the house.Both people are working…split the household responsibilites evenly.Especially when you add children to the mix.

    I strongly think women should focus on education and career in their teens and 20s and worry about family in their 30s when they have a solid financial foundation.

    I was a stay-at-home mom for 2 years..it’s overrated.Noone needs to spend 24 hours a day with their child.It’s not healthy for either party unless you are doing activities every day.My daughter slept,ate and poop most of her 1st year.It wouldn’t have hurt her at all to be in daycare while I worked after 6 months old.

    We live in a world where adults work…our kids needs to see that it’s necessary and there’s a balance of work and home.

    I am that formerly married now successful woman with a kid.The problem was my ex-husband didn’t want to step up and help with the extra responsibilities a child brings to the union…which is a very common problem in most households.Most relationships disintegrate within the first year of the baby being born…all you have to do is look at the black community for examples.Most men don’t want to grow up.Having a child is a huge responsibility and changes the way you maneuver through life….unfortunately women were expected to carry the load while men worked and now they carry work and family.

    The solution…men need to change their lifestyle to fit the needs of a changing family…like women do every day.Stop being half ass while you’re living there and most definitely black fathers need to stop abandoning and running away once the attention is no longer focused on them.

    BTW…I know some awesome husbands and fathers but they’re in the minority.The majority is getting away with absolute nonsense.

  • pearsbaby

    God’s original plan for the family is, for the man to go out to fend for his family, while the woman takes care of the home as seen in genesis. one of the reasons why some women are in pursuit of their career instead of taking care of their families is, because men are no longer supportive in their manly duties as regards family welfare.
    If we should go back to The Original Plan, where a man goes to work and the woman takes care of the home, the rate of crime in the society will be reduced.
    The women will be at home to give the children proper home training and the men will there to play their supportive roles

    • Yaya

      But we live in a two income world….thats not going to fly financially. God also created both male and female equally in his image. If you look at the woman in the bible, they were hustlers – making financial contributions by selling goods….they were not just sitting at home….so in saying all this….that is one interpretation of the bible that does not fly in most people lives…we, women, are suppose to be helpmates but as mates and partners we, male and female, have to work together and let go of the gender roles…both parents need to be teaching the child values 

  • paulette_bajan_gal

    @pearsbaby…women deserve more than that.The Bible was written by men who probably had no clue how to take care of their own children.If it takes sperm and egg to create a baby…it should take a mother and father to raise one.

    I am co-parenting and my daughter has 2 parents who both own businesses.She is not growing up to be a live in maid.That’s what that Original Plan would have for her.We need to throw that plan in the garbage and create balance.Any man that lives in a household and expects a woman to raise their children while all he does is go to work and be praised just for that is just lazy.

    I know a couple in their early 60s..she’s still working full time and he’s retired.He waits for her to make his dinner still.That’s a cultural FAIL.This society condones this type of behavior from men.

  • T to the J

    Hello BBD, I love this topic and the way you’ve broken down the powerful message that was just the ending of a poignant love story that common America would never accept as the norm for black people.

    I agree 100% with Paulette_bajan_gal.

    Thank you for shedding some light on this topic.

  • bogart4017

    I think images of lonely successful women are shown because the writers are cutting it as close to reality as THEY see it. A successful woman has to put her career first and men do NOT like to play second fiddle. Kids are not suppose to come second so all that gets put on hold for a career hence the movies with successful women that nothing at home but expensive furniture and fifi the poodle.

  • Instigator

    1st off, good topic.

    2nd, I’m not well versed with the ‘Good Book’ (only Psalms I read was on the arms of my niccas) but I believe it suggests you love your spouse before your child(ren). So, for all of those saying being a parent comes first, ooo y’all getting in trouble…

    3rd, @ Paulette, no disrespect (which always mean something borderline disrespectful is sure to follow so it’s an apology beforehand) but you sound bitter as hell. I call a spade a spade. It just is what it is. For you to shout from the door that the problem is men shows your prejudice and reduces all words that follow. And, some points could have been valid but they are biased in nature and strips credibility from your argument.

    In regards to the post…
    Let’s keep it 100, successful females have independent issues most men aren’t anxious to wrestle with. Oprah and Dr Phil has everybody thinking they Minored in Psychology and can diagnose any male who doesn’t choose the hard road through life as insecure. And, convenient females throw their hands up in surrender b/c they don’t want to battle males’ eggshell egos. But, as long as males are picking mates then sacrifices are going to have to be made. F it!

    Men, are by design, bred to provide and protect the family. And, for a long time, that translated into being the breadwinner so HELL YEAH it’s still rare for a man to take the backseat to his woman’s career because it’s perceived (whether true or false) to be getting at an element of his manhood.

    And, NO it isn’t possible for career-driven women to juggle family (husband and children) and work. Sorry, face the fact! Females are great multi taskers. To a large extent, they are the closest things to superheroes on Earth, but some fights, you just can’t win. It’s not possible for anyone to work 8 (or more) hrs/day, arrive home and tend to your child(ren) properly then service the needs of your spouse w/o sacrificing AT LEAST one of those duties. IMPOSSIBLE!!!!! If you leave work early to get home for your family then the flipside is that the competition gets ahead. If you stay at work late to stay ahead of the competition then the flipisde is your child(ren) is asleep by the time you get home. As a result, your husband has a stronger bond with your child(ren) than you do (since he’s spending more time w them) and as the emotional creature, you’re going to envy their relationship. Not to mention, your husband transforms into the female in the relationship b/c he’s holding down the household chores but has to put your food in the microwave b/c you didn’t make it home by dinner. You come home too tired to eat when he slaved over the hot stove and you’re too exhausted for sex. And, if you do give him so then its uninspired and who wants that? Life is a huge Catch-22 and there’s a flipside to EVERYTHING so of course sacrifices are going to HAVE to be made. You just have to choose which sacrifices you’re going to make.

    I’ll decline to answer the rest though b/c the questions are loaded. This shit is deeper than the numbers. Stats can show the number of successful women who are without a mate but it doesn’t shine a light to the flipside of a successful woman’s character that although bode well in the workforce, doesn’t quite translate to something endearing for a male when he’s looking for a loving partner.

    • Yaya

      I think its all a matter of balance and as you stated th personality of both male and woman. I am a career woman who works 12 hours a day…my husband also works 12 hour days….but we make it work….we both contribute to the needs of the household and our children….so if you are team, more things can ge done…but if you have “I can do all by myself” mentality and do not realize marriages are based on inter-dependency….than you will deal with what you deal with

  • paulette_bajan_gal

    @bogart4017….that is very untrue.I absolutely love my career and my daughter is the top her class.There’s no shortage of men trying to get with me…just haven’t met one that I find worthy yet.I am most definitely not lonely.Very happy.When I was a stay-at-home mom it was boring and I felt unfulfilled…I wasn’t born just to be a mother.That’s a myth.

    I went to Career Day at my daughter’s school last year and she became an instant celebrity cause her mom is a working artist.Girls can be and achieve what they want.And they do NOT have to sacrifice a family to do it.Having a caring and hands on husband is essential for the family unit to function efficiently.When one partner goes to work and comes homes to watch the game while the other goes to work and comes homes to cook,clean,do laundry,wash the dishes,etc….it’s imbalanced and unfair.

    What role should a man play in his family?Just breadwinner?

  • paulette_bajan_gal

    @Instigator…Have you ever been married with kids?

    No offense…but if you have to quote Oprah and Dr Phil…you lost me right there.

    What did your household look like?Did both of your parents work?What impact did that have on you as a child?What did it teach you to do when you become a parent or spouse?

    My dad was a deadbeat…my mother worked to care of myself and my siblings alone.She lost her semblence of self cause she had no time for herself.Common sense would say if my father stepped up and did what he was supposed to things would’ve been easier for all of us.

    I’m not bitter…I’m taking action.My child’s father is doing what he’s supposed to do…I’m not accepting the bullshit.A black father told me the other day “My son wants to live with me and I’m not having it cause I have plans for my life.”Your children are a part of your life…incorporate them into it.Teach them that we can do all the things we want with them along for the ride.

    Men can be positive,intelligent and giving partners in a marriage and family.Raise the bar for yourself.Don’t stay content with “I’m a man…I don’t know better” You know that’s a lie and I know it’s a lie.You do know better.Stop riding the backs of males who’ve copped out and lost out on seeing their children thrive and live happy lives and elevated their own in the process.

  • mizze

    @Paulette

    In regards to the comment you made about your daughter being raised in that “mindset” of the traditional christian roles in a marriage.. dont think disregard it as not being ordained from God just because it was written my MEN.. now if you dont believe in him then thats a whole other story and your own perogative.. If you are acquainted with Proverbs 31: 10-about 32 they talk about the woman who does serve her husband, raise her kids but also buys land from her selling of garments and sells them to merchant and in turn uses this money to buy land to plant food..and she had maids..now if this was a TRUE woman or just an ideal, I am still researching..but this just shows that there were MEN writing the bible who felt that women encompassed an entire package of what it is to be a woman.. and how different is that from today when we have to have multiple roles…

    I agree that you should NOT raise your daughter to sit and the house and be somebody’s maid but at the same time but a woman taking care of her house and her husband should not be seen as being a “maid”…. I plan to have kids when I am ready to be able to have time to take of them myself and (like you) have my own business..

    and thats a shame about that “i have plans for my life”.. Well he shouldnt have stuck his…let me stop.. let me stop myself now..lol.. but thats how a lot of men I have met think

  • Miss Conception

    I too have a struggle to understand why is it that a husband cannot support the wife’s career? Is it the norm for the woman to stay at home while the man makes the money?

    My parents were both in the military. So my mom didn’t have an option with me. She had 2 weeks worth of maternity leave, and then had to go back to work (this of course was back in the 80′s). What my parents got a nanny for both my older sister and I so that they can do what was called of them at the time. Of course my parents were there for my sister and I whenever they could, but in the end they had to find a caregiver because they didn’t have a choice.

    I guess my point is it’s really hard to maintain a career and family unless you bring the third party into the arena (nanny, daycare,). The fact for the husband to stay home and take care of the children is rare, but does happen. They are considered manny’s (I read it in a Cosmo magazine years ago of course lol). Often, the wife has a bigger salary than the husband, so the husband will stay at home to support the wife’s career and take care of the children. They actually split the responsibilities even steven so that it won’t seem like the husband turned into the wife. But, like I said it is rare to see this case.

    In my opinion, you really shouldn’t have to put one before the other. You married your husband or wife to become one, and your children are what you produced from your spouse. So, in my eyes 1 x 1 = 1. Lol. My parents never placed each other over us, and vice versa. They equally treated to our needs and issues as well as the issues between themselves. You seek your spouse as your equal, so why place your spouse beneath you if you wouldn’t want your spouse to do the same.

    I really like this topic BBD. I have struggled with this myself because I haven’t found a man that can respect me to be his equal. Most men half-ass quote the Bible saying that “Wives, submit to your husband.” Well lo and behold, I am going to quote what the KJV says: ” Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord. Husbands, love your wives, and be not bitter against them. ” Colossians 3: 18-19. This doesn’t mean exactly that the wives are supposed to give up her career or be inferior to her husband. It means that she is to support her husband in whatever means. And men are to love their wives despite of whether she doesn’t want to be a stay at home mother. And, for those who think I am wrong for quoting the King James Version, find the original for me. I will give you a hint, it won’t be in the English language. Lol

  • Elle

    I can solely speak for the corporate world and for Germany, but women with careers, and I mean REAL world changing careers, are rare. So when we are using the term “career” what are we referring to? A woman who works in her field of expertise? Or a woman who is the CEO of a Blue Chip company for example?

    In the first case, I believe it is entirely possible to juggle being a wife, a mom and successful in your line of work all at the same time. The wife part may be tricky because marriages fail for millions of reasons, not because a woman works. Sometimes we have not much if any control over the dynamics which lead to the demise of a relationship or marriage. Besides, if women are being measured by their ability to keep a marriage together, men should be as well. A failed marriage doesn’t look good on their “resume” either.

    Now as for the CEO-type career I honestly believe it is impossible to simply be a woman in the corporate world. You have to be one of the guys and be colder, more cut throat and gung-ho than them. And even in that case there will always be that glass ceiling which prevents women from getting to where they could be getting to. Either you don’t get the job/promotion because you have kids and they have a tendency to get sick sometimes. Or you do not get the job/promotion because you don’t have kids and everyone is worried that your biological clocl will start ticking soon. Women simply can’t win unless they rid themselves of everything that feminine about them. Personally, I am not willing to do that. A career is not that freaking important to me at the end of the day. I will not sacrifice my private life for a job/ a company which doesn’t give 2 squirts of piss about me as soon as it becomes financially inefficient. I rather not run an international corporation if I can spend time with family and friends, can travel whenever I please, can go home at 5 pm and actually have time to myself for hobbies.

  • Elle

    Oh btw:

    Out here women get 3 years maternity leave (or any time frame up to 3 years) and money from the government during that time.
    In order for men to step to plate more, the fathers have to at least spend 8 (the number could be totally off) months of those 3 years staying at home if the family wants to enjoy the benefit of the full monetary support from the govt.

    It’s sad that somebody has to basically trick men into stepping up by waving money in front of their noses. But I guess whatever means necessary. It works relatively well and many fathers are taking that time off from their jobs to spend time with their kids.

  • Shequita

    @ Elle most of us only get 6 wks paid and 4-6 months off from work for maternity leave. Most jobs dont even offer anything to the dads, if they get two weeks off with NO pay they’re lucky. America could care less.

  • Shannon

    The reason men are able to maintain a successful career and have a family is because historically and traditionally men have been the breadwinners; it was unheard of for a father to play a role in the rearing of his children, let alone stay home with them. Since the mother is the one who carries the pregnancy and gives birth, it is she who is expected to sacrifice her career for the sake of the family.

    Women aren’t “allowed” to have it all because that would make them selfish, according to society. A man who knows the pediatrician’s name and reads to his children at night is a saint, but the mother who works late and doesn’t see her children off to bed is a sinner. A man is considered a good father if he changes a diaper and “babysits” for his wife, but the mother who dares to want time to herself is frowned upon.

    It really depends on what works for the woman. I was married, but now I am widowed, and I never had to choose; my husband was just as comfortable playing Legos and doing laundry as he was in the office and I was as comfortable in the office as I was in the home or cooking or cleaning or bouncing a cranky baby on my knee.

    Now that I am alone again, I’m not so sure I want to marry again–or even meet anyone; men have really gone downhill since my husband IMO–but I am on the career fast track and having a man/husband may derail that for me and I’ve worked hard for this. I gave up a lot to follow my husband for the sake of his career, but he was never willing to relocate or follow me for the sake of mine. Over time I began to resent him and was poised to leave to jump start my own life, but he relented and took a job that, surprisingly, paid more money for less hours–until he had to travel a lot for work.

    But we made it work, right up until our last day together. My husband was sweet, hardworking, honest and dependable, but he was human and therefore not perfect. We had disagreements early on due to his traditional views on the roles of a husband and wife; he determined that his career was more important and mine was just something for me to do to “pass the time” while the children were growing up. But once he became sick, having a career boded well for me; I was able to cover the bills and one of the doctors I worked with, a top-class oncologist, consented to treat his cancer.

    I never did and still don’t have a personal life, but that was my choice. It would be nice to meet someone who would be supportive of my career and not expect me to make all the sacrifices and maybe it is still possible, but time will tell.

    I’m atheist, so the whole Bible thing never really worked with me. I have my own mind and don’t need guidance from a book written by a man, so men who used to quote Scripture to me usually found the door the hard way. Times are changing and there is an increasing number of stay-at-home dads now that women are earning competitive salaries and often more than men in some industries. Maybe once a few more men opt to stay home and give up their careers for their children they will see it’s not as equal and as easy as they once though. These days women want to be more than the “married help.”

  • paulette_bajan_gal

    @Elle…that’s awesome.By any means necessary.lol.

    Most men have chosen their careers over their families for ages..noone is writing a blog making them feel ashamed about not being there for their kid’s first steps…someone if a mother isn’t she’s the worst mom ever.smh.

  • PCA

    Is it that men chose careers over family or does the fact that by nature a man can still work while his wife is pregnant feed into it a little?

    We all have to acknowledge that part of parenting requires sacrifices of both the mother and the father but in different ways.

    Another issue is that women and men dont engage in this dialogue before the kids or marriage. What are his expectations, what are your dreams? All that needs to be hashed out before hand, so that everyone knows what expected (and what they are losing out on) upfront.

  • Miss Conception

    @ Elle

    That is very interesting to know. Often, everything is about America, America, and America. It’s important to know that not every society has the same based culture as we do in America. Some government are more/less supportive of the family value. If you ask me, our country still holds the same traditional values as the Four Fathers intended us to obtain. I would go into detail, but this would cause too much controversy and many wouldn’t understand. Point: America isn’t the only country in the world. Other countries have their separate values from us.

  • http://sleep-is-the-cousin-of-death.blogspot.com/ MadScientist7

    i think it’s one of those double standards in society that just so happens to work in favor of men. not saying that it’s right but that’s just how it is. there are plenty of double standards that work in favor of women as well.

    as progressive as we like to think of our selves as a society, we still hold on strongly to a lot of gender roles. one of these gender roles just so happens to be that women are better nurturers than men.

  • da ThRONe(back home)

    @Quoteman

    I was tired last nite when I posted that comment last nite. So you have to excuse the errors in the post. LOL My personal grammar police already checked me about it. :) (Hey baby)

    I was with you originally. Recently I use to feel that a parent commitment to there child was greater then a spouse commitment to one another.

    Now this isnt saying neglect your kids for some man weither he’s their father or not. But your commitment to your spouse is for life. While your commitment to your kids are until they’re adults. If you are in the unfortunate position of being a single mother ,and if your in the market for a husband its a good measuring stick. Your future husband should love what you create like he created it himself.

    You shouldn’t just send a potential mate packing because your kids dont like them.(especially at first) Children can be very emotional and irrational at times.

    For example my niece was an asshole from the time she was about 18months til maybe around the time she turned 5.(I use the word “was” loosely) She couldnt stand other people especially other females. I was just her uncle and she hated damn near all my gf/female friends. She was very jealous. So if I based my dating on who she liked or disliked I would have dated way more less than I already did.

    It’s a tough call ,but if you handle your business and dont bring people you handle know around your kids it should work itself out.

  • Rastaman

    Back in the 20th century I believe women having the succesful career, family and marrigae was called doing it all, then being a superwoman. As reality set in most women are relegated to choosing to grudgingly commit to the “mommy track” or the “career track”.

    From a socio-economic perspective I believe most of us have been sold a bill of goods. Yeah, you see 30-40 years ago most middle class American families could live a reasonably comfortable life on one person’s income, in that case it was the husband. When women started entering the workforce en masse, employers saw it has an opportunity to slow wages because they now had an eager new workforce who was willing to geet paid less for the same work. I am not blaming women or feminism but making note of how we were bamboozled.

    Fast forward to today, even if you have a middle class couple who combined make around say $150K they feel pressed to maintain financial stability in today’s economy and even worse if they have children to raise. More negative conditioning is why, we are told all these status symbols we are suppose to accumulate to mark us as being middle class or somehow succesful (2+ flatscreen TV, fancy vacations, luxury ride, etc..). this pressure is reflected whom we marry, how we raise our children and the social policies we promote in society.

    Most women with a modicum of career success or potential success still will not marry a man who may potentially be less succesful than her. I remember be very disturbed at hearing a group of women sit around shaking their heads in disdain when reading a marriage announcement about a sister who was an investment bank VP marrying a phone tech. Neither of those women made as much as the phone tech, much less the VP but they thought he was below them. Both men and women have been sold a bill of goods on what is important and what are the priorities.

    The new fairy tale for many women is still that they can have it all. So whether they choose family or career, they are still made to feel like they are less than….the compromise would probably be to have a mate who is willing to be the main care-giver but women also then feel less than if they think they have married down.

    My personal relationship mantra is that whoever does a task best should do it more. For instance I am a better cook than 90 percent of the women I have dated in the last 15 years. So I would very definitely be doing most of the meal preparations in my home. Our relationships are spiralling out of control because we don’t have a commitment to a work/home balance personally or socially. Its not a part of many of us personal relationship priority and its not reinforced by employment/social policy.

    We are stil do busy trying to do it all. Being succesful doing it all is still a myth.

  • Elle

    @Shequita

    Yes, so I have heard and seen first hand when my sister-in-law had my nephew. UNBELIEVEABLE!

    Quite frankly, I can’t understand why women in America are still having babies. German women are relunctant to starting a family because despite the governmental measures which are supposed to make motherhood into a do-able and attractive possibility, making this choice is still very unattractive with job stability out of the window, rising unemployment, skyrocketing taxes and such. If it is a financially dangerous decision to become a parent in Germany, I can only imagine trying to raise a child in the US. I do not think I could do it and I can only tip off my hat to all the mothers and fathers in the States.

  • Othaniel Cruickshank

    @ Rastaman

    iI completely agree with your perspective on society’s view of a “worthy/ideal partner, successful relationship and/ or success period”. As a person who shudders at the idea of women making less money for any given task or not being allowed the opportunity to really compete within any specific industry. I realize and accept that this is going on and feel as if the world hasn’t caught up to the change within many of us. Our desires to revolutionize industries, pursue our dreams, and have a role other than great wife or mother. We feel pressure to compete the way men do within our given industries; staying at work really late, 24/7 accessibility, and no work/ life balance overall. We forget that these men almost always have the support of a wife who’s taking care of home and his children which makes it easier to live that sort life.

    I think it’s possible for women to enjoy their work and family, if we stop trying to compete the way men do and demand reform. I’ve watched women, who are Senior VP’s work while out on maternity leave, and come back and stay at work until 8:00 or 9:30pm with a new baby at home. I also hear them complain about how work was demand from them while out with a sick child, on vacation, at a funeral etc and spew out resentful comments about the pampered wives of their co workers. Why should we have to do all that to keep our jobs and maintain our positions? I don’t think all of this is necessary but we live in a society where enough is never enough.

    We also live in a patriarchal society and are expected to conform to gender roles which mean; cooking dinner, nurturing the kids, cleaning house, etc. The jobs mentioned are traditionally women’s roles so we end up working outside and inside the home. The pressure and guilt mounts and doing it all seems like an impossible task to maintain. In order to be truly successful in your career being alone seems destined; late hours, no opportunities to meet new people outside work, no time to invest in a relationship, etc. However, if you meet a supportive man who is a nurturing ying to your overly ambitious yang, it may work but again the strain of competing with the boys in a boy’s way will affect your relationship. I can’t see a spouse not resenting his wife not being available for family dinners, on the BB during vacations, and not investing enough time at home. I think work/ life balance reform is really needed to catch up with the career women ambition.

    I believe sex doesn’t determine the best person for the job and a woman/ man can both be superior candidates. However, I know the importance of nurturing/ teaching a child from birth to 4 years old in just predicting intelligence. So, interesting topic and am very interested in hearing potential solutions.

  • Sherell

    Wow Where do I start!

    @ Da Throne I have to disagree. Maybe in an ideal world, but your children are your children for life. Your level of responsibility changes as they become adults, hell they probably will end up taking care of you. Unfortunately, spouses are not usually for life. If so, then great!

    @Rastaman I agree with you on whoever is best. Growing up my father was very nuturing and was very different from many Dads. Both my parents worked, but my Dad did at least 50% + of the cooking. He was a cook in the Army and enjoyed it. Plus truth be told, he was much neater than my Mom. LOL!! They worked it out and lasted 50 years until he died. That definitely shaped my view.

    I have been married and now am single and its a balancing act. Before you get married you need to talk these things out. My late husband lucikly worked different hours then I did so we could juggle my son. He didn’t cook, nor was a big cleaner but he took care of the cars, the yard and all the so call traditional men stuff. Careerwise, I have always been the person that made the most. But he was self employed so that was a factor. If my son was sick, and couldn’t go to daycare we would either alternate days off or even split a day in half depending on our work schedules. I like so many others had theories about how I would operate when I had kids and got married, and that’s fine. Jusl know that reality may change that, and be prepared.

  • da ThRONe(back home)

    @Sherell

    Its sad that you have that opinion on marriage. Like its just a coin toss.

    I guess my point is why would you want to be with somebody who doesnt want whats best for your kids as much as you do?

    As far as gender roles. I dont believe in them. With the advancement in technology and the laws that (for the most part) prevent gender discrimation. I dont see the point of gender roles anymore. It’s out dated like out-houses.

  • Chey

    The thought that spouses aren’t for life and children are is the problem. Yes, the child will always be your child and I guess it comes from women being nurtuing by nature to want to take care of home (literally and figuratively). But I have to agree with *da Throne… it’s all about your idea of gender roles. Women that allow themselves to be forced to choose like mixed race people who let the world tell them, “pick one you’re either Chinese or Mexican.” It is a juggling act and until women turn to men and go, “You need to juggle too, man.” Then of course the woman will sacrifice. The whole, man works, comes home to a clean house and prim children… are we serious? This is NOT the 1950s. It’s 2010. I have a job, so do you. and WE, let me repeat WE had this children so WE need to raise them. Men need to stop taking a successful woman as a threat to their manhood and women need to stop allowing themselves to be forced to choose for male ego (cuz that’s usually why). Cuz should he decide to leave you, you’ve spent X amount of years out of the working force, chances are you will have the children, and then be forced to work and raise the children on your own. So, I say, it’s all a gamble and make sure you get the right partner on the spades team.

  • Sherell

    Da Throne Don’t be sad. I think highly of marriage and as i stated earlier my parents stayed married for 50 years. It is just that the reality is that most folks don’t stay married long now days and I see so many parents putting their kids last after some person that they hope to hook up with.

    Also, I am pretty certain you are not a parent, no disrespect but let’s talk after you have a child. I had so many people say what you said and then had a child and changed..

    One test I use to give my friends before and after they had a child was this :

    If in some situation someone had to die and they said you or your child, who would you choose?

    Now say you have no kids and they say, someone had to die you or your spouse, who would you choose.

    And then let’s say you had both a spouse and a child, and they said one had to die , who would you choose?

    The answers always change after having a child, no matter how much they love their spouse.

  • Chey

    @ instigator. WTH. “He becomes the female…” What exactly does that mean? It’s a female’s role, duty, etc. to be with the children more than the man. See, you are exactly what is wrong with men in 2010. If men feel that way about children then I pose the question: why have them? And why is it that she has to choose and things get run a muck when the woman works? Your whole hypothetical situation was so sterotypical. Let me flip and ask you the reverse since you say there are two side to everything. Why is it that when a woman works OT she comes home too exhausted for sex? Is it that way with a man? And if you wanna use sterotypes and say that, then the woman spending less time with the children wouldn’t destroy the bond because she carried them for 9 months and (9/10) fed them breast milk so there’s already a powerful connection before and right after the child was even born. Also you say “It’s not possible for anyone to work 8 (or more) hrs/day, arrive home and tend to your child(ren) properly then service the needs of your spouse w/o sacrificing AT LEAST one of those. IMPOSSIBLE!!!” So what is it men sacrifice? You say ANYONE not, any female, but any person period. So, if men aren’t sacrificing their careers, obviously, they are sacrificing either their children or spouses, and if we wanna use sterotypes, like you seem to love doing, they sacrifice both. All in all, you’re just a hot mess using stereotypes to justify chauvinism.

  • http://twitter.com/SoloAt30 SingleInMy30s

    I think if both parents are willing to commit to sharing the load of caring for their children and household duties, it is totally possible and very healthy for both parents to be working toward their dreams, whether that’s inside or outside the home. There are so many more opportunities for women today than there have ever been before, and I don’t think women have to say, it’s a career and spinsterhood or marriage and family.

    Our society and our workplaces don’t make it easy for parents, especially in comparison to other countries. I think there needs to be an overhaul in our society that shows a greater commitment to family and children.

  • Chey

    I agree with Single… also, the fact that once children are 5+ why not go to work since they’re in school anyway. And once they get to a certain age there are afterschool activities they can get into and, again, the children aren’t home so why do you need to be

  • da ThRONe(back home)

    @Sherell

    I dont have kids personally I am waiting for marriage. But that doesnt mean that I havent played the role of father to kids.

    If you ask me and my finace to choose between our life and her child life we would both choose his life. But that doesnt mean that he should come before me. When we make decisions we will always keep his well being in mind. But if we decide to move after we marry her son will have little to no impact in the decision. We as a team will be making any final decisions. When you put your child first you let them dictake to you. No parent should let any child dictake to them period. Thats why we are as fucked up as we are. Parents dont know who to be parents.

    If I ever asked my finance something about us and she tells me “Only if my son agrees” we have a problem. Now lucky for us he’s a great kid and we get along very well. Now I would never purposely do anything to hurt him. But our priority is to our union not his fellings. As far as his well being that will always be both of our priority. And if I couldnt willing agree to that I wouldnt be worth marrying in the first place.

  • older & wiser

    @ Mizze, the Proverbs 31 Woman description is about the seasons of a woman’s life. She did NOT perform all of those roles at the same time!

    Free yourself and your mind so we can all exhale collectively now, whew!

    As for the post, I think the discussion is lively but dead on point as examples of what BBD reffered to as NOT having real life examples of work/life balance for married women.

    I was talking about this post with another married woman and she said the reason the marriages dissolve is bc of S-E-X! Men unwind with sex and women are too exhausted for sex so the relationship suffers.

    After dissolution of the marriage, the woman now has one less “chore/thing” to worry about doing and can now focus on her career and being a single mother.

    What do you all think, is she on point?

  • Chey

    @older & Wiser… not really cuz the woman, more than likely, is still going to be looking for a man. People, the human race, needs companionship and it’s not a bad thing but women tend to get looked down upon for it and so they/we scream “I’m independent!!” every two seconds to compensate and feel better. cuz if women didn’t want/need men they’d be lesbians (still looking for companionship just with women) or asexual. But yes, sex and not children is usually what ends relationships.

  • Sherell

    DA Throne
    I never said you allow your child to dictate your life or make the decisions!! As parents and adults it is your role to make the decisions based on the best interest of the family. I had my son after I was married, as well.

    Again, no disrespect but playing the role of a parent for a few months is so very different. With time maybe yes.

    I assume you mean Fiancee, in any event The thing is as much as we want things to work out, sometimes they do not. Fiancee and Fiance` do not become our spouses or are replaced by someone else. Wives and husbands may change. But your child will always be your child.

    Good Luck

  • da ThRONe(back home)

    @Sherell

    Pardon my mispelling never was a good speller and Im just being lazy right now. LOL

    I dont place importance on hypothetical who would I die for questions. Thats like saying if you had to choose between two of your kids who would you choose? Some people have jobs were they put their lives on the line to save complete strangers. That doesnt mean they matter to them. I guess if your baseing it off of who you would die for then I agree its the kids. But if its who your committed to its your spouse. Once again a man and wife is one. Parent and child isnt one or even a team unless they work together. It’s sad people dont see a marriage as a life time commitment.

    You dont know my situation so you cant judge it. Loving and caring for kids arent based solely on genetics. We have seen uncles ,aunts ,grandparents and even adopter’s have just as much connection to children as any biological parent.

  • Rastaman

    While this is a personal issue that appears to impact women more so than men. I think many of the commentators have conflated this into another battle of the gender wars. What they are failing to see is that men are just as disadvantaged in these situations as women. If the metric for success is money or career achievement then yes it seems men have it better. But what about on the other end, the family relationsip end, where many men have sacrificed their relationships with their wives and their children because they are less than if they are not the main provider of their family. Men who do jobs they do not enjoy or are motivated to do but do it because that is the only option to pay the bills.

    The reality is that men have always known what women are just beginning to realize, you can’t have it all. The system is so skewed that you have to sacrifice something to get something else. Men who opt out of the traditional male roles are looked down on in our society, not thought of being succesful males. This super machoism you see amongst some in our community is a reaction to many men no longer feeling like men because they can’t do the things in life that make men be cherished.

    This is not a gender issue it is a societal issue one that is exacerbated everyday as the economic pressures in our life make us more anxious and desperate about our futures. We become frustrated and we can’t see a way to achieve our hopes. That is when we start to blame someone else for the situation, when we all have the ability to change our societies values. Values that typecast us into these inflexible gender roles and make so many of us feel less than we are because we cannot meet some mythologized standards.

    We are been made anxious and we are seeking to assign blame.

  • Sherell

    @ RastaMan So true! I saw my father and many other capable black men of his generation work at jobs that took so much from them to provide for their families. In some cases it impacted their relationships.

    I think that many young folks believe that they can have it all. Not realizing that there are sacrafices that have to be made on both ends. Its a balancing act and its made harder if you subscribe to some preconceived roles of who does what!

  • Sherell

    “In youth we learn; in age we understand.”

    “Youth would be an ideal state if it came a little later in life. “

  • older & wiser

    Compromise and understanding seasons of our marriage is what worked for me and my late husband.

    BTW, thanks for the love Sockheads, I am also known as BBD. :-)

  • EmotionalFUnk

    Why is it an “acceptable” loss for women to be successful and alone while men are often able to maintain their career and family?

    I don’t see it as an acceptable “loss” for either gender but I don’t see be successful (in your career) and having a family a loss for one side.

    Do you think it’s still rare for a man to take care of the family and take a backseat to his wife’s career? I do still think it’s rare but more common now as I know a few more families doing this now but they aren’t taking back seats to their wives careers they all seem to be doing what benefits their family the best for now.

    Do you think it’s possible for a career-driven women to juggle family and work?

    I think she can if that is her goal but if it isn’t and she’s doing it because she has to then of course not.

    Or are women with ambition doomed to be successful and alone or at higher risk for divorce?

    LOL, no way not at all. Being successful (in work) does not mean you’ll be alone or will divorce.

    Would you be willing to sacrifice having kids just to maintain a happy marriage and career?

    No, I would not at all but I would not marry a man who didn’t want kids if I wanted them. I left my job after having my son child. It was a sacrifice but making a sacrifice isn’t bad.

    How many successful people do you know that actually have successful relationships?

    Around two-thirds of my long-term friends/ family are successfully married and they all seem happy and none have been married for less then 5 years. So, so far so good for them.

    Would you rather be a good husband/wife or a father/mother?

    I’d be both…that’s whats I signed up for right. Whats the point if you’re really not trying to do it right.

  • R.e.D

    I’ve observed children enhance marriage and I’ve watched children destroy marriage. What made the differnce:Expectations.

    There are times when a wife is so disappointed by the father her husband has turned out to be (b/c she expected so much more), that she takes on the role as mother and father, which of course causes the relationship of husband and wife, i.e marriage, to ultimately fail.

    The marriages that work and thrive are the ones in which both ppl are on the same page as to their role (not traditional gender roles, just whichever spouse does what better) as spouse, parent.

    I am single, childless, successful-by the limited view that U.S. society views success, and hope to one day have a husband that won’t make me choose. My priority will be my family, never my career, but I’m not willing to be that stay-at-home mom either.

    In terms of who comes first: My parents have always put us first and they’ve been married 45 yrs.

    I asked my brother one time if his wife or his child came first.. His answer was that at different times in life, u have to choose who is the priority. When a child is young, he/she should be the primary focus of the parents, however as the child gets older, his/her needs are different, so the focus sort of re-shifts back to the spouse. Keeping in mind however, that either relationship is not so far down in second place that the marriage or the child suffers.

    This was a great post BBD/Older and Wiser. It’s something that I think about often.

  • R.e.D

    That click to edit feature doesn’t work at all!!!!It won’t let me edit anything!!!!

  • http://nwso.net NWSO

    @R.E.D.

    Interesting, what browser are you using? Maybe it’s just not compatible with your browser. There is a time limit on how soon after you comment that you can edit or delete.

  • SaveMe

    I made the cboice a long time ago not to get married and have children. Until I did everything I wanted to do. I want to be the wife and mother my family can be proud of.

    This is America people can do anything they put their mind to. There are alot of couple that make it work.

  • R.e.D

    NWSO: in terms of the 5 min time limit- that part works, but when I actually attempted to make a change, the screen just would not allow me to. Then, I tried using the scroll tab to scroll up and down, but the screen sort of did what it wanted. I think u said u live in a MAC world, but try your correction tool on a PC and you may see what I mean. It’s not a huge issue, I’m over-reacting, I’ll just check a couple times before I hit ‘add comment ‘ but this is more for site-improvement.

    Forget the comment, it’s working now..well sort of….

  • http://www.drcarolynmiller.com Dr. Carolyn Clansy Miller

    I enjoyed your article, BBD. You made several good points. It’s rare that we see positive portrayals of working women who have it all. The reality is that it’s difficult to achieve….but not as rare as we believe. So many women in the African American community have had to balance work, family, and marriage and have done so by necessity. It’s great to finally see a depiction of such a woman that is not cast in a disparaging light.

  • lola289

    @r.e.d
    Im w/ u… but in the end I just double or triple check! ;-)

    also, just copy and paste off Micro Word! That always helps!

  • Elle

    Well the latest relationship studies show that couples who share the household chores & take care of the kids on a 50-50 basis have longer lasting marriages. Something to consider.
    If both parents sacrifice a bit none of them feels like they are neglecting their needs for the sole benefit of the other. That in turn may help avoiding frustration and resentments against one’s partner and consequently the demise of the relationship.

  • pearsbaby

    lets be realistic, you cannot run a successful career and a successful family at the same time, one will have to suffer for the other. i would advice the womem to invest the first ten years of their child bearing into their family life and after wards they can pursue their career. and men please we need your support for this great sacrifice we make for the family.

  • Jessica J

    To start it all off I think of it this way. I wanted to be a veterinarian since I was three. Knew I could dance and sing since I was 7. Knew I could write when I was 11. Knew God when I was 12. Dreamt of the house I’ll live in when I was 13. Wanted to be in love when I was 14.

    I see that as: I wanted all these things in my life (which I am pursuing) way before I wanted a man, and I have yet to reach the age where I want children.

    I look at my dreams and gifts as the things that define me. I’m single now but I tell any man, shoot any woman or person that if I DO NOT become a doctor I will hate my life and more than likely drift away. It is the thing that runs through my veins and is making me put up with 12 yrs of college, because I want it more than anything, even a man or marriage or child.

    Now I hold high views of family, marriage and relationship with children. Why wouldn’t I, I never had one? With all the things I have and will accomplish in my life, I know deep down in my heart that a successful, love filled marriage, a family and being a good parent are the most important to me.

    But at this time I want to be selfish. I know that I want to get married and be a mother one day, but I also recognize that I will never be as good a mother and wife if I don’t first do the things for me that make me proud, complete, stable and confident in that I can do everything I truly want to do. I’ve told past boyfriends to their face, “Look I want this more than you or anybody else. I may love you, and would love to have you along for this journey, but if you ever get in my way, if I don’t remove you, God will.”

    While I wouldn’t mind getting married young, I refuse, and will never compromise on having children till after my career is stable or the age 28 which is the point where no matter how far I am, I’m going to say enough. If I had a child, I would hate it. I would look at that baby as my bachelor’s, my master’s, my Ph.D and my dream. Everything it got to do and accomplish and live through I would be jealous of because I feel like it stole my chance.

    But taking children out of the picture, if I do get married young, I need a guy that is so supportive to the point that he won’t need to worry about being a sit home dad, he’s going to have to be able to maintain a love for me that even if I go away for 4 yrs to med school and barely talk to anyone because of relentless dedication to my dream, that when I get out he’ll be there, a little worn, a little hopeless, a little down but the same fire and light in his eyes. He has to be that strong for me, because I would be that strong for him.

    If we’re two career oriented people then we will have to talk about a point where no matter what, our jobs come second, and building a foundation, planting roots and creating life is ready to come first. If he’s accomplished what he wanted before me, then I hope that he would take time off. If vice versa, then I plan to do the same. If we’re both at that stage where if we keep working we excel in our fields, then again we have that talk.

    I will pursue what I want for me, because it matters more than children or a man right now and for a while. But if I do end up in a relationship, it’ll be hells fire getting me to be a mother and sit at home mom anytime before I’ve attained my goals. I believe I’ll give better love to a man and child, once I’ve done the things that I love myself. If he can’t understand that, then he and his sperm can keep walking.

  • QuoteMan

    I remember of a friend of mine saying a couple like the Cosbys – only happen on TV. In his book, there was no way a Doctor and a Lawyer as a couple could have a successful career and raise a family at the same time. But I reminded him of my physician; his wife is a physician, too. Plus, they were able to raise their daughter to become a physician as well.

    I don’t know how they did it – but they did an exceptional job.

  • pearsbaby

    Jessica j, where in the world can you find such a man? please we are not talking of fairy tales here these are real life issues.

  • Jessica J

    @pearsbaby I wasn’t joking when I said what I said, Neither do I believe what I spoke on is impossible. If it is then I’ll be by myself for the rest of my life. If God wants me with something different, then he’ll send it that way.

    But I imagine if there is a guy that exists like that, he would already be my friend or someone that has stuck around by my side for years and never complained. Its not that I faith in a man to be the way I described, it’s that I have faith in God to change and help people, like the way He helped me cause there was a time when I wouldn’t do any of those things I mentioned, and I was out on the streets being a fool and not doing anything conducive to a dream that most people fail on. God found me and made me reliable, supportive, patient, all those things I look for in a man. If I can do it, you can do it. So how on earth can it be a fairytale if God has proved it true through me that people like that exist?

  • pearsbaby

    @ Jessica J, be it unto you according to your faith and am happy to know that your life is changed for the better.

  • Jessica J

    @pearsbaby Thank you. I appreciate that, I truly do.

  • Elle

    I love your determination Jessica! Kudos to you.

    One advice: don’t stress yourself with the 28 cut off age. Careers don’t usually happen that way nowadays. Folks with masters and such are being unemployed or working in poorly paid sales clerk positions more and more. Do what your heart desires. Follow your talent, your passion. But try to be easy on the expectations as far as a career goes. Times have changed and it’s not that serious at the end of the day.

    Maybe I misread what you wrote though. In that case, just ignore my speech :)

  • Lanique

    In response to those parents who say “wait until you have kids”, what about those who already have kids and letting them run around like wild banshees! It takes and man and a woman to raise a child (actually it takes a village but thats another story) just as it did to make one and wrong is wrong. It doesn’t take anything but common sense to check parenting skills. Let’s be for real, we’ve seen it all on the corner, on Maury, etc.

    Secondly it’s all a game of sacrifice. It’s called teamwork. How about we execute that for a change instead of worrying so much about the superficial. With the cost of living these days, the media attacking and trying to destroy minority relationships (especially black), how about we try to support one another instead of downgrade.

    Yes women, understand, sometimes we need to shut the hell up, respect yourself always and understand your man is a man….FLAWED…. and to expect nothing more than what you’re realistically and potentially able to bring to the table your damn self (Don’t let Chili gas you, you see she had to hire somebody to find something that’s only a possibility of love).

    Men, understand women are not superheros. Know the difference between a hoe and a housewife, be responsible when planning your future (the Nas divorce) and unselfish (Tiki’s separation, nuff said).

    We can work anything out as long as we put the egos and bs aside and work together… DAMN! Everybody’s ready to fight for their pride to win but what exactly is the prize? I’m just saying…

  • Sigray

    "in favor of the woman"

    Relationships are not supposed to be "in favor" of one partner over the other.

  • knighthonor

    IMO, Women with high up positions like that, usually have Super Over the top Egos. What this does, is basically kills off Men wanting to be near them.
    Its similar to how American Black Women constantly preach this mess about being Ms Independent. In these Over Ego Women’s mindset, they should be worshiped and they are never wrong about anything, even the choices in the relationship.
    The Men that have deal with that, are fighting a uphill battle because most of these women can never be told they are doing something wrong, even with facts to back it up. Because these Over Ego Women will still fight against their man to prove to their over Ego self, that they are somehow Truly Independent and dont take any back talk from a Man.

    This is so much Drama in a Relationship. What kind of good man, wants to be in a relationship with somebody like this? These ladies are usually aggressive and ego centric.

    I had a friend, she would always bash me for my views on love and the passion I had for my goals of getting married and starting a loving family with my future true lover.
    But she was single, Aggressive as a Mug ####er, and total Slut. I didnt want to have Sex with her at all even tho I could feel that she wanted me to be her FWB. I would never touch her like that, after all the shit I learned about her.
    But the one thing that happen one day, was a discussion came up about why she single. and Why her Ex broke up with her.

    And I told her, but she got mad and kicked me out her house.
    In her mind, giving another man a Blow Job behind her BF back,m isnt considered Cheating, which her Ex found out about and broke up with her for.

    But she doesnt see anything wrong with what she did, in her over ego centric, feminist mindset that she has.

    What kind of Good guy wants somebody like her? Only guys that want her, are the Fuck Buddies. Which are never the right kind of guy for a serious committed relationship.

  • vivian-li

    This is exactly the phenomenon I’ve been witnessing as well — men get to have both: a family and a successful career, while women have to choose between sacrificing her career for a family, or sacrificing creating a family for her career.

    I won’t pull my punches: underlying all of this is men’s refusal to take responsibility by engaging in their fair share of childcare and domestic work. It is no small injustice when a plethora of women do not hesitate to sacrifice their careers and support their husband for his sake, while there are almost no men who are willing to reciprocate and support their wives in the same manner. Men want it all — both a family and a career. Meanwhile, if women want the same, they either cannot find a husband who will support them and their career life, or they find they must throw away their career to become a housewife if they desire a family. In short, men need to grow the f–k up from their juvenile delusion that the world revolves around them and should cater to their every desire, including their wishful thinking that women were put on this Earth to service them.

    The resolution of this “work/family” problem that women face (how often do we see *men* struggling with this problem?) is to demand that men contribute equally to housework and child-rearing. Of course, there is bound to be some contextual variation: if a husband earns twice as much as his wife (*before* having children or the mother going on parental leave), it would only be logical for the wife to devote more of her hours to domestic work. But the opposite also holds true — and this is where the misogynistic resistance lies: if the wife earns more than her husband, it would only be rational for the husband to devote more hours to domestic work so that his wife can devote more of her time and energy to her paid work. This latter case of economic rationality, however, rarely comes to fruition, and thus is precisely where the problem originates.

    Indeed, women’s human rights in first-world countries haven’t progressed as far as many people think. The message that women should be domestic slaves for their husbands is still going strong: if the woman rebels and opts to pursue a career/self-actualization, she is “punished” by being prevented from having a family, and forced to go it alone because there is no one to support her.