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Dear (Baby) Mama: You Are Appreciated

This was supposed to go up first thing in the morning last Tuesday as part of my weekly post for MadameNoire, but my editors got caught up at the office and didn’t publish what I submitted until late that afternoon. Although still mine, my words were streamlined considerably in the final piece.

As an editor myself I know that shortened word counts are part of the process, so, normally, it would be no biggie. However, this particular entry was a rebuttal piece to that “Baby Mama” post I did for MadameNoire a few weeks back. I feel like a lot of people got things twisted and I just wanted to clear the air.

While the MadameNoire version was cool, I wanted y’all to read my unedited response in its entirety. Feel free to CLICK HERE.  if you want to check out the MadameNoire post, but below are my unfiltered thoughts…

A few weeks back, my now-infamous post, "How Black Men View Baby Mamas," ruffled a few feathers. In fact, one of my regular Naked With Socks On readers Ronnie6676 of The Candy Shoppe penned her own response, "Why NWSO Pissed Me Off (A Single Mom's Rebuttal)," which I posted on my site. One of my FaceBook friends, Carrie Pink, also voiced her displeasure with me on her blog, Pretty World Inc., with "The Baby Mama Debacle, Pt. 1 & Pt. 2." That's not to mention all the flak I got in the comments section here on MadameNoire and on Twitter (@NakedWithSocks).

Honestly, I’d like to move on from the whole affair but some six weeks later I'm still receiving angry responses. Tired of defending my personal stance and answering the same question(s) over and over again, I decided to state my case one last time here and be done with the discussion for good—hopefully.

After taking some time to step away from the original post, I've gone back and reread what I wrote a few times and I must say that I still stand by every single word. Problem is, I feel as if a lot of people misinterpreted what I meant—but I can see why.

Just to clarify, the intent of my original post was not to classify all unmarried/single women with a child as a “baby mama.” I was initially speaking on the term itself and its use in describing a particular kind of woman. The point was to express the idea that we as a people shouldn’t use and/or accept it because the broken family structure is all too common in our communities and I’d much rather more two-parent households. Then, separately from that, I began to speak on my own personal preference for dating childless women and expressed my reasons why. Covering two topics in the same post, it’s understandable how some of my intent got lost in translation.

To reiterate, I never said that dating a woman with kids was totally crossed out as an option for me—because I know quite a few young mothers that are not just attractive but great women—but where I’m at in my life right now I prefer childless partners. That’s no knock against anyone that has kids for whatever reason (divorcee, widow, planned, accident, etc.) but that’s just my personal preference and I have a right to it. Just like a lot of women prefer a man that’s a certain height, complexion, earns a certain amount, or whatever other arbitrary requirement.

We all have our own ideal partner in mind, but if I’ve learned anything over the years it’s that what we want and what we need are two completely different things. So if the woman of my dreams happens to be a mother I’d love her and her child just as much as if she were childless. I imagine that many women will make the same compromise if their husband wasn’t as tall, dark and handsome as they had initially imagined. At the end of the day, all that should matter is that you and the person you choose to be with are right for each other—child or not.

I pass mothers on the street everyday—both single and partnered—and think to myself how beautiful they look with their child. There’s no way I could look at an innocent child as a “curse” or “burden,” I just have to be honest with myself and admit that I’m selfish right now. But when I actually go through the pregnancy process with the woman that will carry my child, I’ll have nine-months of preparation time to get into the mental space to accept fatherhood. But, right now, to just walk into a situation where I may have to deal with having a child in my life overnight is a bit much to handle. I’ll be the first to admit that the idea of that scares me. At least I’m man enough to admit that, but for the right woman I’m willing to do anything if she’ll let me.

Somewhere along the lines, someone made a comment stating something to the effect of; how could I ostracize single mothers when I myself am the product of a fatherless household. In essence, they suggested that I was disrespecting my mother in the process. I have nothing but love and respect for my mother; not just because she gave me life but I witnessed her strength and determination in raising my three siblings and I by herself.

Yes, she was married and it didn’t work, but I wouldn’t ask her to stay in a relationship with my father just to live out my idea of a nuclear family. See, I understand firsthand that all marriages don’t work and not every single woman with a child automatically becomes labeled a “baby mama.”

Along with marriages failing, husbands die and sometimes a child is conceived between two people who plan to be together forever, but, unfortunately, things just didn’t work out. I’d be a fool to not understand that reality, but it takes two people to make a child so I feel both parents should be involved in raising that child. However, that doesn’t mean they have to be together.

Some couples just don’t function well in a relationship but still manage to make parenting work. I’d much rather see two people that share a child be happy apart than miserable together. The latter doesn’t truly benefit the child in the long run, and at the end of the day I want what’s best for the child—my future little ones or anyone reading this.

Now, I’m not saying that marriage is this magical fix-all for relationships and parenting because we’ve seen numerous unions fall apart. People cheat. People fall out of love. People die. People are more concerned with the wedding day than the actual married years. My point in wanting to be married before having kids is that at least I made a concerted effort to do the “right thing,” or at least what I consider the “right way.” If you have a different vision for your childrearing practices then more power to you and do what works for you.

I know that accidents happen and I could just as well get the wrong (or right) woman pregnant at the wrong time. If that’s what my future holds then so be it, but that doesn’t stop me from trying my best to do things to cut down on that possibility. In the event that I had a child out of wedlock; would that make the mother of my child a “baby mama?” Not necessarily, like I said in the initial post:

“A baby mama, however, is a whole other ball game. Just look at the term itself. It’s detached and impersonal. She’s not called my wife, my girlfriend, or even my lover, but my baby’s mama. That doesn’t denote a loving connection but a relationship of circumstance. Generally, this is just a woman that happened to get pregnant and if not for the child y’all probably wouldn’t have any further contact after the relationship went south. Even if y’all are together, the fact a man would refer to you as his baby mama as opposed to his wife/girl shows that there isn’t much hope for the relationship evolving beyond two people that happen to share a child.”

As the product of a single parent home, I have no problem admitting my own daddy issues. Part of the reason I’m so steadfast in my desire to be in a marriage that actually works is because I don’t want to be anything like my father. I want to be there for my child no matter what and even in the event of me impregnating someone I couldn’t see being called my wife, I pray that she could be more than my girlfriend, or even my lover, but a friend. That way we could raise our child separately but equally. In that scenario, I wouldn’t view her as a “baby mama” but the mother of my child or whatever term we both agreed on.

So whether or not you agree with my dating preferences or my reasons for them, that’s where I stand on the issue. I can’t speak for all Black men’s view of “baby mamas” or on single mothers in general, but these are my thoughts. Regardless of the reasons for why a woman is raising a child on her own, as long as she’s doing what’s best for her child, she is appreciated.

Keep your head up.

For those that were offended by the first “baby mama” post, was it all about the tone or my preference? Can you accept my stance better this time around? Why do you think so many people got upset by the original if they know they aren’t anyone’s “baby mama?” Do you agree that most people without kids of their own still view life from a very “selfish” perspective? Do you agree that some couples work better apart then together? What did you think of the original version of today’s post vs. the edited version on MadameNoire?

Speak your piece…

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  • Kaye Michele

    Thank you for this.

    • http://intensedebate.com/profiles/anslem NWSO

      NP.

      Forgot you were a mom.
      My recent post Dear Baby Mama- You Are Appreciated

  • http://intensedebate.com/profiles/ronnie6676 Ronnie6676

    Very nice...like I always said it was the tone of the first piece that kinda got me. But I get your point, today and way back in the first piece. It's your preference and hey everybody cant' want to date Caleb's mom and that's ok :)

  • NDCPA

    I actually agree with you. I have a rule, I don't date dudes with kids. Before people start getting on me my brother is a single father and I love him dearly and know there is some woman out there for him, however me personally at this stage in my life and in the future as far as I can see I will not date a guy that has a child. For one I don't want kids. Two, even if I did want kids I don't want the attachments that come with dating someone that has a child. Sorry it is way too much work and could be way too much drama if everyone is not mature to handle the situation and even then there is going to always be this connection to his baby mama not to mention the extra problems that go into dating someone with kids. So I feel you and completely get what you are saying.

  • Elle

    I don't see why everyone got their panties up in a bunch about the first piece to be quite honest.

    If you're not a stereotypical baby mamma, why do you feel the post was disrespecting you? I never understood that. For example, I could care less if men call women hos for I know I am not one so why feel offended?

    *shrugs* Personally, I do not think you had to justify your statements or explain yourself, Ans. But hey ... whatever's clever.

    • Shola

      i echo elle's sentiments completely - i didn't see anything wrong with your initial. but maybe because i understood exactly where you where coming from??

  • Enid Wilson

    Excellent post. I admire your strength, to hold firm your view point. I'm not good with children, so I must say I prefer less "complicated" relationship.

    Steamy Darcy

  • Deka

    On the real, there is a huge difference between men / women who have children and those who don't. I think NWSO can come out and say what he feels. That term "baby mama" can be annoying and automatically say there is drama in one's relationship, when that isn't the case all around. As a single man, I go into relationships based on what I'm comfortable with. If I'm not interested in a woman with children at this point in my life, that just my choice alone.

  • StoryofaWoman

    NWSO, as usual I always appreciate your honesty and willingness to say the things that others lack the courage to say. I wish more people would be up front about their preferences. I completely understand that dealing with a woman with kids is a lot of work (in contrast to dealing with a man with kids because most of the time they are not with him all the time). I am a single mother of a 7 year old little girl, and I also work and go to school. My time is very limited which would require a man to be ok with working within my schedule. Some men are not willing to. There are some selfish men, whether they have children or not, or they're not trying to get into anything serious. Some may be weary of baby daddy drama, or fear that I have still have emotional and sexual ties to my daughter's father. I also have a preference to date a man that doesn't have more than 2 children, not because of the number of children, but because of the possible inability for someone to have the type of relationship that I am looking for (especially if they are by multiple women, especially if they are close in age). In these cases I have discovered that it was common for these men to not use or believe in the practice of birth control, or feel it necessary to procreate with every woman that they feel seriously involved with, or do a lot of bed-hopping between exes, or have unresolved relationship issues. If I was a man I would be just as weary of women that have multiple children by multiple people, close in age. We are in 2010 people and we need to start being real with ourselves and others.

    • http://intensedebate.com/profiles/anslem NWSO

      Thanx sis. Appreciate your words and understanding that life is hard regardless of being a parent or not, but seeing where I'm coming from at least.
      My recent post Dear Baby Mama- You Are Appreciated

  • MARCR OO SELER

    I'm basically echoing Elle and Deka. I don't see why a repost was needed. You don't date single moms and that's that. What I do find annoying is when a person states their preferences, especially when it comes to females (I don't date fat/chubby/non-health conscious women), the females tend to get offended or angered and give you the "how dare you look" or one female who asked me what my preferences said I just plain ol' disgusted her because I am biased. Um...isn't that what a preference is? A personal bias for or against an attribute or more (bias being good or bad for whatever reason). Grow up people, what you're mad at is not Ans, you're mad at the possibility that your chances are less because of your status and it was verbalized (suck teeth, roll eyes, do the neck thing).
    Just accept that you maybe not the one, as with any other person entering a relationship and understand the responsibilities that may have to come when dating a single mother (if that's the case). Time constraints are probably the most dubious and if the mother/father wants your involvement and how soon. For me that's a leap and a different kind of build. I know guys/ladies who've done it and they love the new person and child(ren) but it's a lot of energy for those who want it.

  • http://twitter.com/RCTuri @RCTuri

    I wasn't ever offended by Anslem's preference. I just did not want to be labeled.

    I do agree, as he pointed out, that the confusion developed from beginning the piece with the stigma of "baby mama", then him transitioning to expressing that he'd prefer not to date a single mother and why.

  • Newbie99

    I am a bit upset that you had to do a repost. Your preference is your preference and your opinion is your opinion. Its like someone getting upset at women with children who say they won't date a man with children (this is a very common preference), yet people get mad at you for not wanting a ready made family. This is why men say women don't like to hear the truth. When a man is honest you get offended, when he lies you are hurt...they can't win with us. No one gets mad at us because a good number of us would rather not date a man with children...you don't hear an uproar when a woman talks about her preference for a single childless man. To be honest, what would your impression be of a man with multiple children from multiple women? Answer that question and then apply to yourself if it fits. Its a hard situation for anybody to be in and it takes a mature person to own up to the fact that they don't want a relationship with me and my child.
    I respect your opinion and I am glad you stood by it. It is what you want for yourself. Yes, you could have been in a situation with a previous gf who got pregnant by you but it didn't happen. To those it happened to, those were the cards you were dealt with. That is what life had in store for you. Don't take offense that you are not someone's cup of tea. By God, you can't be everyone's cup of tea.
    The only person that should take offense (or rather sit and reflect) at your previous post is the woman who acts like a "baby mama" (that term is real). At the end of the day Anslem, your preference is your preference. Your posts cannot please everyone, everytime.

  • http://intensedebate.com/profiles/primarythoughts primarythoughts

    Maybe I'm just used to reading between the lines, but I got it the first time around re: your transition. I'm sure that there is someone out there that feels love when they hear the term "baby mama", but I would say most don't. I would also venture to say that the history of the phrase "baby mama" is similar to that of the word "nigger". The root is/was (depending on your perception) negative. As far as dating preferences, everyone has them. So, whatever...

  • da ThRONe

    I'm trying to understand the difference between "Mother of my kids" and "Baby's mama" ,but whatever?

    Being that I'm engaged to a women with a son I can speak on it first hand. This is not the way I envisioned getting married. But it's the balance that is life. No matter how much her son and I bond I will never be his father and I'm reminded of this everyday. It's hard knowing that our future plans for procreating is heavyly impacted by this young men who's existence I am not responible for.

    I think the amount of resolve it takes to be apart of a union like this is completely underated(especially for a person who is as selfish by nature as I am). Any person who would'nt want to deal with this constant battle loses no respect from me.

  • Nicole

    I agreed with you on your first post and still agree with you on this one. :)

  • Eve

    I agree with Ronnie. The tone this time is different, more respectful and understanding. I see your point and have no problems with your position.

    • http://intensedebate.com/profiles/anslem NWSO

      funny thing is everyone mentioned this "tone" but I looked back at it numerous times and didn't see anything out of line or character. May have written more laid back but I never saw anything that was disrespectful. Ultimately, I had a word count and didn't have the free reign to express myself as I do here so perhaps that was the problem.

      All good
      My recent post Dear Baby Mama- You Are Appreciated

      • Rastaman

        There was no tonal difference, you know what's different now the folks who felt offense are not caught unaware. You surprised them with your view, they thought they knew you based on your past opinions and this one was not inline with their expectations. Consider the person who said that based on your experience with a single mom they would expect you to be more accepting of single moms.

        I analogize it to people being upset when one person expresses a thought they were all thinking but did not feel like they could express. Seeing that I am usually that person.

        I somewhat share your view and I can also say that view was encouraged by my Mom who was a single mom before marrying my father. I glad you came back to reiterate your view and what many of the responses on here from prior detractors prove is my view that most women even when they disagree with you initially come to respect you when you do not back down.

        • http://intensedebate.com/profiles/ronnie6676 Ronnie6676

          Thanks for being my psychologist and analyzing my reaction for me...it's much appreciated.

          But seriously, I can speak for myself and it was definitely the tone of the piece and how it flowed that I didn't agree with.

          Never had an issue with NWSO's preference...I'm too cute to be worried abotu one man's preference. LOL

  • http://intensedebate.com/profiles/taranab Tarana

    I never understood the folk who caught feelings. I am single mother. I understood and appreciated the sense of responsibility and consistency that you were showing BEFORE having a child with someone. Bravo.

    My daughter is 12 and she has seem me with three men in her life. Her dad, a long term boyfriend and my ex-fiance. I date, but most men don't get the privilege of meeting my kid until I am really, really, really sure that something serious is happening. I do that for my own reasons and for some that Anslem mentions here. I don't want a man to make a connection to her and then not be in her life. That has actually happened to us before (even after five years) so I don't want her to grow up thinking that men leave.

    In any event, thanks brother for an excellent post. Both times.
    My recent post I’ll take an ‘aisle seat’ thank you

  • http://www.itsjustgoldie.com Goldie

    I thought a lot (all?) of the flack was unwarranted because the article was about dating preference. This is a nice follow-up+I'm glad you still stand by what you originally said (though I didn't doubt you would stick by that).

    It'd be a bummer to find out that someone didn't want to date me because I have a kid (tho it hasn't happened yet), but I'd understand if the fool who passed me up did because he has a preference. I prefer to date men who are open to the idea. Preferences are A-OK! How folks could get all bothered+downright angry about that is beyond me.
    My recent post im doing this

  • QuoteMan

    The truth needs no explanation; if that’s your honest truth, say it no more. Me, if you said it once, you said it twice.

    From here on out, do everything in your power not to play daddy to OctoMom’s kids. Else you gonna have lots of explanation to do (to these ladies). LOL

  • karmagini

    I was not offended in the last by your previous post either. Even if your opinion differs from others, you have always presented it in a respectful way. I think people didn't notice that, because they took your opinion personally. Myself, I think the term "baby mama/daddy" is degrading and sounds ignorant. No matter what type of parent they are, they should be called what they are" the child's parent. Just like other slang or derogatory words in our society, I believe the less they are used, the less negative power they have.

    I do not have children & neither does my dude. I wouldn't limit myself to only dating men who were childless; however, I also prefer he not. I have to say, it's made things a lot easier that my boyfriend does not have kids.
    Plus, I would be more content not ever having children (or at least that's how I feel now).

  • karmagini

    I have never been the kind of woman who dreamt of having a family or believe children define one or their purpose in life. Just because I have a uterus, does not mean I have to use it to procreate. You can call it selfish if you want, but honestly I think many people actually have children for selfish reasons: to have someone who'll take care of them when old, to fulfill some sense of purpose, to "improve" the relationship, etc.

    A radical concept for limiting the pregnancy rate and a lot of the dysfunction with parents who are not together, is if people actually considered what that person would be like as a parent, BEFORE having sex.

  • BMW2K

    @ NWSO: Coming from a male dominated family, I will tell you that most men I know think the same thing. For that matter, I know single fathers who will not date women with children because the men realize their mistake and don't see the need to compound it.

    When I was single, I REFUSED to date men with children and was called every kind of stuck-up b**** because that was my choice. Both my husband and I waited till we were married to conceive our children and we have no regrets. Our sons have the same parents and even if their dad and I were to divorce in the future, we gave them stability and an example of children conceived within wedlock.

    Your post was stated clearly and intelligently.

  • Shannon

    To each his own, NWSO. I do not date men with children; I know this is a double standard because I have children, but I just don't want to have to deal with any kind of drama regarding another woman or have the child's mother tell lies and all but turn the child against me, which often turns the father against me as well. No parent will date someone their child doesn't like and some children will purposely break up a parent's relationship in the false hope that their own parents will get back together (it happened to me once, which is why I don't do it anymore), plus I don't like feeling like I have to compete for a man's attention. Call me selfish and accuse me of holding a double standard, but I will not date a man with children. If you choose not to date a woman with children, that's your prerogative; you do what makes you happy. Some men want the freedom of just being a couple and then preparing for the transition during the pregnancy and I totally get that. My current boyfriend told me he liked that I had children because that meant when and if we ever have children, I will know what to do because he would be lost, lol. Not a great reason, but one that works for him.

    Most men don't want to raise another man's child and don't want another man to raise their child, but it's on a case-by-case basis. Everyone is different. I don't think your original post was offensive; I am a single mother and I know why I'm single and why my children don't have a father. Unless a woman is out there f***ing harder than a sailor and has five or six children by five different men, I say to them, instead of getting offended, keep your legs closed. Place more value on yourself than that; a man has a right to not want to date a single mother, just like a woman has a right not to date a single dad or a jailbird or a crackhead. To each his own; do what makes you happy.

  • TaiCid

    You forgot to mention where you referred to baby mama's as people with baggage. That was the deal breaker right there. I believe that was the nail in the coffin that made ppl upset.

    • http://intensedebate.com/profiles/anslem NWSO

      You're referring to when I said/wrote: "And in terms of dating a woman with kids, there’s a possibility things could work out given the right circumstances, but truthfully I’d rather date someone with less baggage." Well, to me we ALL have baggage. Anyone that has been in at least one relationship carries something over from that. In fact, sometimes it doesn't even take a romantic relationship, we can have "baggage" from our parents, being teased as kids, etc. Whatever the case is, baggage is a part of life. While kids aren't automatically always baggage I just couldn't think of a better word to capture it. Sorry it was a deal breaker for some but IF the individual is a baby mama with the drama that's baggage. If you're just a single mom doing her thing, it's not necessarily "baggage" in the negative sense but you definitely have some carry-on luggage and I travel lighter than that. :)

      Love is love
      My recent post Dear Baby Mama- You Are Appreciated

  • http://nwso.net/2010/08/02/dear-baby-mama/ Just Visiting

    I never took offense to your first post or your preference, however, as a single mom who deeply loves and cherishes her son, MY CHILD IS NOT BAGGAGE. PERIOD. He is a blessing from God and any man who sees him as baggage can keep it moving. Don't even ask me for the time.
    My recent post Would You Let Your Kid Do Porn Dear Montana Fishburne

  • sholla21

    I actually saw that post on Madame Noire. I don't think the tone was offensive.
    Everybody has preferences. NWSO is entitled to his and shouldn't have to explain why he likes one type of woman better than the other.

    Those who feel discriminated against by people who don't want to date them for whatever reason, should remember that THEY have preferences themselves, and felt well within their rights everytime they eliminated a potential suitor who didn't fit the bill.

    Not everybody's gonna think you're the best thing since slice bread. And guess what? It's okay. The only people you should focus on are those who appreciate what you bring to the table.
    I'm not everybody's cup of tea, but I sure am not losing sleep over it.

    Just like a man with child(ren) is not my cup of tea. More than that, it's an absolute dealbreaker for me.
    It is my choice, I'm entitled to it, and I disagree with people calling that choice selfish.

    I don't have a child, not because I'm lucky, not because I'm sterile, but because I planned it that way.
    I believe it is my right to live the child-less life as long as I please. And I'm not dealing with somebody else's children when I managed through sheer discipline not to have some of my own.
    It is not selfish, it's me exercizing my God-given freedom to enjoy the life I chose for myself.

    When I get married, I will start a family with my husband. That is, my preference, my choice, my prerogative.
    There is no reason for someone to be mad or feel hurt because of somebody else's preferences.
    Live your life. Don't waste it worrying about what somebody else is doing.