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Do Blacks Have it Harder Than Whites? (A Matter of Race)

Posted by NWSO • October 21, 2010 • Printer-friendly

Dear NWSO,

A few days ago, I was talking to an acquaintance (Black male) of mine and the subject of kids came up. He mentioned that he had three by three different women and had never been married. Now, just to give you some background, I’m White but my last serious relationship was with a Black man. I’m not going to say that I understand at all how it is to be Black, but as a White person, I have heard what some (ignorant) White people will say when no one else is around. I also have enough Black friends that I have seen just a small portion of how hard it can be to battle those stereotypes.

My understanding is that Black men and women have to work extra hard to be taken seriously by people who are less enlightened than they should be, even now that we have a Black president. I could be wrong here, but this is just from my perspective.

Every Black man who has a couple (or more) kids by more than one woman is feeding the stereotype that all Black men go around like bees pollinating every flower they can find. Please excuse the cliché. It isn’t fair, but we don’t seem to have evolved enough as a society to see these as exceptions, rather than the norm.

Secondly, I was out at a club one weekend and got there early enough to get a table. I got up to dance with a gentleman, but left my things there to save my seat. Keep in mind, that the club was nearly deserted with plenty of available tables, but I had a prime spot. I returned to find a group of about six Black women at my table. I told them that I didn’t mind sharing, as my friends weren’t there yet, but I’d like my seat back. They told me that my name wasn’t on it and proceeded to get very sassy and aggressive. My new dance partner invited me to share his table, but the women were talking very loudly about me for about 10 minutes afterwards.

I get that there are rude women of every color, just as there are men of every color who impregnate every woman they get their hands on, however, those races don’t face the same stereotypes. My friends all feel that, as unfair as it is, Black people have to watch what they do to avoid perpetuating those stereotypes. Every Black woman who mouths off for little reason just encourages people (even Black men—I know several that feel that way) to believe that they’re all angry and rude. Also, every Black man who has children with multiple women reinforces the idea that most Black men are like that.

Hopefully, I don’t come off sounding naïve and I would hate to sound ignorant or prejudiced. I was hoping for some different perspectives. My circle of friends is local, and it could just be a North Carolina point-of-view. If I’m wrong, I’d like to know. Do you agree that Black people have to hold themselves to a higher standard in an attempt to end these stereotypes?

Dear White Chocolate,

First, let me say that it's interesting to get a White person's perspective on a topic like this. Do I feel that people of color have to hold themselves to a different standard to break stereotypes?

Yes… and no.

Truthfully, I feel that people should be who they are regardless of race. It's ludicrous to believe that only one race acts a certain way. I’m not saying that you think that way or believe that to be true but just making the point. Stereotypes are based on generalizations and if someone has their own preconceived ideas in their head about what others are like, sometimes there's nothing you can do about it.

For example: Pres. Obama is a smart man, regardless of race (and especially more than Bush) but some folks will still view him as less than what he is just because of his skin color. Despite the fact that, from what I can tell, Obama breaks every stereotype of the Black male out there.

On the flip side, though, I'm a person that does not accept racism but I do expect it. As a Black man in America I’m constantly aware of my skin color and what others may or may not see. You can’t see my college GPA, career, personality, manners or intelligence just by looking at me, but my skin color is clear. With so many negative images of people of color in the media, I feel that it’s only when I open my mouth that I become different than the preconceived notions of those who judge a book by its cover.

But that’s human nature.

I can't tell you how I cringe every time I see young people of color (and some adults) on the train or street using the N-word openly or acting out some stereotype in mixed company. I don't know these people or their history either but I'm sure that anyone unfamiliar with people of color just lumps me and those stereotypical individuals in the same category just because we look the same.

With that said, I try my best to represent myself and people of color when I can. Sure, I'm more comfortable in a pair of jeans and Timbs, but if I know I have a meeting or doing any kind of business I try to look presentable. This was especially true back when I had waist-length locks because I felt like I always fit the “description,” so I made sure that my attire showed that I wasn't some hoodlum off the street. I'm not going all out in a three-piece suit but you only get one chance to make a first impression—especially when you're Black.

It's a sad reality and I'm sure not all are willing to look the part, but that's fine. Maybe it doesn't matter, because a suit can't protect you from getting shot my rogue cops that think you fit the description or mistook your wallet as a “deadly weapon,” but as long as I and the folks in my circle know that I'm not a stereotype I'm good.

But I guess the final answer to your question would be yes, because there are a lot of folks that don't help the image of people of color, which will always be biased in a country built on racism and run primarily by a different race (read: White). Now, not to sound cliché but, we (Black people) have to do better.

Do you feel that people of color have it harder in America? Do you agree with my philosophy of not accepting racism but expecting it? If you’re a person of color do you feel that people judge you by your skin color or based off what they see in the media? Are you guilty of doing the same to other races yourself? Have you found some stereotypes to be true in certain cases? Do you feel that when some people of color act out stereotypes that it reflects badly on you? Do you think that other races talk about you behind your back? What do you do to break stereotypes?

Speak your piece…

Tagged as: affirmative action, race card, racism, racist, streotypes

sunshyne84

I just hate being labeled the angry black girl even when I have reason to go off on someone. It's not like I do it to everybody. I do think black people have to try extra hard to break stereotypes and it's a shame. White celebs act up and nobody whispers "There goes Becky, I bet she doesn't have any panties on". But because you see a couple black people on COPS, we're all criminals. Of course stereotypes are the for a reason, because there is a significant amount of people of said race that justify it, but people need to realize that skin color doesn't make you all the same. Maybe the area you are in, but not skin color.
http://www.jobsfornaija.com jumoke

I agree black people have it harder than whites, even in my own country here which is an african country. Being white or even being fairskinned puts you at an advantage and its so sad
Enid Wilson

I actually think that maintaining cultural or racial identity is good. It makes a society more interesting. Otherwise, it will be like a colony with clones. I totally agree that there are rude and badly behaved white, black or yellow skin people. It's not the race that's important. It's a person's character that makes him/her good.

My Darcy Mutates
Preachthecomedian

I don't stereotype too much unless it's the police. As a black man I hear way too many stories of men who getting released after 10, 30 years in jail due to wrong evidence.
Racism has and will always be around. Im a educated black man with a bachelors & a MBA . But I got a fraternity brand on both biceps and tatts on my forearm. Some people think I look like a natural suspect . Damn if u do damn if u don't
hellifiknow

I think her query is a little disengenuous. She claims to be asking about steretypes but perpetuates two of the mosty common about black men and black women. She lives in North Carolina, which has a large and diverse population of black people and those are the only examples of nlack folks she could come up with? Taking the club scenario - does she think it would have been different had it been a group of white women? Was she in a black club? So does she think that a black woman in the same situation in a white club would have been treated differently? This summer, I saw a group of white girls jump another white girl in a club and sit there and laugh about it. Does that mean I think all white girls are combative and ignorant? I didn't miss that chick managed to throw in that her black male friends think black women are loud and ignorant. Nice touch, especially coupled with her implicit assertion that she "thinks" black folks sometimes may be victimized by racist assumptions. Bitch, please. You did say you live in the South, right? That kind of ignorance went out with Troop jackets and Walkmans. I know your kind and I don't mean white. I mean racist and trying to find co-signers for it under the guise of naivete. Fuck outta here with that.
http://journal.koneko.org chmijo

As a black female, I've seen all kinds of black folks that run the gamut from "stereotypical black" to "out of the norm black". And yes, all races have similar stigmas, but nowhere is it more pervasive than with African-Americans. You do have to prove yourself not in that same stereotypical mold, but not through a constant fight. For me, it's about living the right kind of life, speaking intelligently and carrying myself as a mature individual that distinguishes me from the rest of the ruffians. If only more models were out there to show the general populace that "Hey, black men aren't all thugs & baby daddy's" or "Hey, black women aren't all baby mama's & loud bitches", then we wouldn't have to deal with this AS much.

Sadly, it doesn't seem like something that will be going away anytime soon. I wish more parents took heed and gave their children a fighting chance at a different mode of operating in this world as an African-American. At least the next generation could have a fighting chance to transform the stereotype.
http://nwso.net/ NWSO

Hmmm,

I didn't see the letter writer's perspective that way. What I read is that she has seen the stereotypes of Black men having babies and Black women with attitude (the same way that I, and many of us have) but clearly said that she knew not all are that way. But I think she was making the point that when some do act that way or have those actions they hurt themselves by perpetuating the stereotype.

He said: "I get that there are rude women of every color, just as there are men of every color who impregnate every woman they get their hands on, however, those races don’t face the same stereotypes."

And because of that she feels that Black men & women have to work harder to defy stereotypes, which I agree and actually do.
Preachthecomedian

Work twice as hard to get half the reward
Lyndon

Being black is a job! Everyday blacks (the conscious ones at least) have to represent not only themselves, but an entire race. We can't say this, can't say that, can't buy this when in the company of certain people. It gets stressful. We even get to work and it's "LIGHTS CAMERA ACTION!". All because we hate the stereotypes. But the truth is, much of what we are accused of is real. The bad attitudes, the sense of entitlement, the lateness etc...

Most whites don't have to think about being white.... They just exist. Not until recently have they been made aware of their skin color and I find they resent the inconvenience. But through it all, I try hard to not focus on the negative in race relations, because progress is being made and you cant't force change.

Nice topic
http://www.SpeakResponsibly.blogspot.com SomethingSpecial

I understand to a point where the letter writer is coming from. Yes as Black people we do have to be aware of how we act in public because people are ALWAYS waiting for that stereotypical speech and behaviors. Its not fair but such is life...But honestly as stated with every race they do have the bad apples it just seems like we more than any other race are expected to fullfill those stereotypes. I don't think every white person is a redneck, racist,or can't dance. Or every Asian can't drive. Every Latino has 25 family members in there one bedroom apt. So why do I have to prove I'm not on welfare everytime..
Womanofyr

Do we have to hold ourselves to a higher standard? Hell no. The examples given were men with a multiple baby momma, and women who steal seats and do public humiliation (low standard). For them they only need to hold themselves to an average standard. They were doing the low standard things.

Probably, the people doing the stereotyping is holding us to a higher standard (than they hold themselves). They expect us to act like Gods to just get simple respect. High standard is good, but average or above average is enough (for simple respect).

As far as getting rid of the stereotype? Well, the stereotype lives in the individual who believes it. So only that individual is responsible changing their need to marginalize. There are already examples of variety of personalities amongst any race. We can't force white people to stop stereotyping, even now with a black president. They are the way they are on race, because that is their choice and belief system that they enjoy.

As far as the women stealing the seat, so what. That could happen to anyone. Learn how to successfully deal with your problems without making it a race thing. If those girls were being racist, well handle that some how. Why should I be on here answering for some rude girls. I don't know either of you.
.................

As far as education/career goes, I think all should work twice as hard, especially us.
Womanofyr

Of course high standards are good for all, in all areas of life. But that has nothing to do with trying to change a racist. Those high standards are for a better life for ourselves.
Womanofyr

It's like white girl hold that over our heads, saying..

'Be nice to me (kiss azz), or you gonna face more racism and stereotyping' Kiss her azz, or else.

Why not say be nice because its the right thing. Or say be nice, because I'm nice. etc.
Southern Poise

There are stereotypes that Black people will always be associated with. But I also believe people are who they are, and you are a product of your environment. The more educated you are the less likely you are to react or act in a demeanor that you are “prone” to because of where you come from. I would be remiss if I didn’t say that there are some Black women that I know and have seen, have to respond to EVERY inconvenience or wrongful situation with the some form of anger or retaliation. But that doesn’t mean that EVERY Black woman has (ABWS) ‘Angry Black Woman Syndrome’.

Black woman are strong women period. Statistically, a lot of us do come from single mother homes, so we have the burden of keeping a household together, raising our children, and tying to keep our head above water. And a lot of times there’s no support, so we are the backbones of the family, and are the ones that have to go to bat for our families and ourselves. So yes, when there’s a NEED for it, we can sometimes develop ‘ABWS’, if you hit the right nerve. But being angry in occasional situations, in the skin we’re in, doesn’t necessitate the stereotype of ‘ABWS’. It’s only a small handful of individuals who may seem to always have a chip on their shoulder.

And I agree with Hellifiknow, in a club scenario, not really a great point to make. The women were right. You don’t own the chair in the club. You got up to go dance. Whether your stuff was there or not. Sure they could have been nice and decided that you were there first…..But com’on, you’re in a damn club, with limited sitting. You move, you lose(that's like silent language in the club rule book)....There are just some things expected when you get up from your sit, you take your shit with you, unless someone’s there watching it. And clearly by your own admission, there was not.
Tea

I agree with @Womanofyr that the stereotype is in the mind of the stereotyper.

There is almost no way in the world that I (as 1 Black person) can change the stereotypes held of us. Why? Because I can attempt to live up to someone else's standard of what good, decent, appropriate behavior is and all it takes is 1 incident, one day, one moment, where I slip up and 'catch an attitude' for a stereotype of all of us to "be confirmed." Better yet, no matter how good I am at taking it upon myself to combat stereotypes in my everyday behavior, all it takes is any other Black person 'slipping up' to to confirm a stereotype that was already held about all of us. Who has time for that?

When you stop and really think about it, some things that are "stereotypes" aren't even actually negative things. Being able to speak American English as well as however I talk around my friends may mean we are bilingual (and/or grammatically genius). Dressing in certain styles may demonstrate how we can trend setters. Eating chicken...what's wrong with eating chicken!?!?!?!

Look, people are always looking for anything to confirm what they already believe negatively about Black people and constantly rejecting ALL the millions of examples that discount the stereotypes.
The Duchess

The United States of America is the most ignorant country in the WORLD cause we have issues with each other over ethnicity! SO SAD! We are all AMERICANS! When will people get the memo.. When we fly into other countries, we aren't identified as black, white, purple.. We are identified by the country of origin stated on our passports.
Tea

Do you feel that people of color have it harder in America?
Hell yeah! We live among our historical oppressors and they control most of the institutions we participate in or must matriculate through.

Do you agree with my philosophy of not accepting racism but expecting it?
Definitely!

If you’re a person of color do you feel that people judge you by your skin color or based off what they see in the media?
Hell yeah. I have been to conferences where I am the first Black person someone has seen in real life. In 2010---Ridiculous. True.

Are you guilty of doing the same to other races yourself? Hell yeah. Stereotyping is a way of life. Its human nature. It's how our brains work for efficiency. However, the problem is not stereotyping (grouping people) per say. The problem is not admitting that sometimes we incorrectly categorize and group people AND another problem is always seeing differences as deficiencies!

We can't all be the same and shouldn't be.

Have you found some stereotypes to be true in certain cases?
Yes

Do you feel that when some people of color act out stereotypes that it reflects badly on you?
If someone is being a hot mess than they just are...it's probably not simply because they are a person of color. Also, all stereotypes aren't about negative things.

Do you think that other races talk about you behind your back?
Yes.

What do you do to break stereotypes?
Nothing in particular really. I try to be a good person and hopefully anything bad that I happen to do wont be attributed to my race.
Rastaman

It is interesting because the sterotypes and behaviosr she expresses are the same stereotypes and behaviors that some immigrants have about black americans. I always tell them that low class people are low class no matter what their race, nationality or ethnicity.
Racism in America is alive and well, it is not as bad as it use to be but it is still here. I don't blame the LW for pointing out those things because they bother me too but I am aware enough to know that I cannot attribute it to the people being black, I attribute it to them being low class.

Low class is not about money or wealth either, its about being vulgar or crude in how you live and behave. I understand as black folks in America there is a natural inclination to want to have each other's back because there is power in numbers. But we have to understand that based on how some people choose live their lives or behave the only thing you may have in common with them is pigmentation. I am sorry that is just not enough for me.

The department of the company in which I work, I am like a raisin in a sea of milk. I carry myself like a grown up professional, odds are there are people I work with who view me in less than glowing terms based on my race but guess what I really don't give a sht. Try to mess with my livelihood or do me bad and yeah we now have a problem. Then I will no doubt realize your worst fears about black men.

My advice to the LW is open her eyes because for every bee pollinating brotha there is several married faithful fathers and for every loud abnoxious bunch of sistas there are gracious respectful ladies. You just seem to associate with some low class people who happen to be black, you may want to consider changing that fact.

Plus it is not entirely her fault, over the last 30 years or so acting low class or "ghetto" has become interchangeable with being black in America. It is a belief constantly reinforced in media and culture where some black people have chosen to trumpet that type of behavior as proof of their blackness for profit and celebrity. Make no mistake it is low class behavior even if its being sold to us as black culture.
Syreeta

Agree. I work with all white men most of the time and we trip off each others quirks.
Syreeta

Imma do me whenever wherever. Never do I feel like I have to put on airs. I am black, I look black, I act black.

Nearly all of the jobs I've been on (construction), I was the only female and the sometimes the only black person. I work with white men on the regular and yes, they laugh at what I say and how I say it but WHATEVS!
candace

Actually even while understanding the purpose of the topic I am rather annoyed by the tone of this letter. It's as typical as racism. It's the condescending, commiserating: my poor dear black friends, I am different, I don't think like that, yes true some black act up and event if I understand where the stereotype comes from I know you are not ALL like that!Seriously I do! I even dated a black guy!..bla bla bla...Pfffff

Seriously you do realise that any black people stereotypes is an utterly stupid, unintelligent & ridiculous attempt to categorize more that a billion individuals on the planet? Or are we talking about the african-american then just a few millions in the same drawer is just as stupid.

Now we know we are dealing with ignorant fools why even care what they think? Even when a black person does not embody their stereotypes, you will just hear the typical "you are different from the rest of your race"

The purpose is not to behave in good respectful, honorable way to please or be liked by whites (Could not care less). We do this because that's the way we were raised and the kind of person we want to be.

Now the workplace is another matter. The same ignorants are there but they are your bosses and collegues therefore you are always forced to be a "saint", a "genious", or work like a slave (perdon the irony of this one)just to offset the prejudicial stereotypes that exists in their mind alone.

I'll be the best person I can be. period.

Refuse racism but expect it. I do not only agree with it that's how I do my thing.

@Duchess: A while back Oprah went shopping in Paris and wasn't received as the "superstar" that she is...why is that you think? The answer would be ovious for those who went/lived there. Melatonin.

Anywhere we go what the person will see first is you being black and try to validate all those little stories in their head on you.
Syreeta

High five! "the stereotype lives in the individual who believes it."
Shannon

I've always been coined as "the angry black woman," and it doesn't bother me because I have good reason to be angry. For the most part, black people are seen as intimidating and in order to be accepted into white mainstream, they have to "wear a mask," so to speak. They have to monitor their appearance and watch their tone of voice and remember to speak with proper diction...and it can be wearing for some.

Now, I've never had that problem; I've always fit in well and I just be myself. I used to tell my husband, who was white, "I am me and I am okay just the way I am. Why in the hell should I change and rearrange myself to make white people feel more comfortable? They aren't going to change and rearrange themselves to make me more comfortable, so if I am unacceptable to them as I am, then let that be their problem, not mine." At first, my husband didn't see my point, but over time he did.

Now, the club scene...yeah, black women can be some asses for sure, especially if you're a different race. It's a damn chair; are you serious? But I've been in situations like that before and to me it's too petty to make a big deal about, but it's usually the ones who don't have much control in their lives who make a big deal about the little things anyway.

I do believe that black people have to work twice as hard to get half as far as whites, but a time comes when black people have to take responsibility for the choices they make. I told my cousin once that the white man didn't tell him to rob a liquor store or get hooked on crack or have eight children by eight different women. That was his own stupidity and he couldn't blame that on racism; he made his own choices. I told my sister nobody made her have four children with four different fathers and live in the projects on welfare and foodstamps; hell, she decided to open her legs and lay down and get those children. It's her fault that she never finished high school and won't work--wouldn't work if you gave her a job.

That doesn't mean to say that it doesn't happen within other races; for sure it does. But I do believe that it's more commonplace in black people and it is heartbreaking that black families are not what they should be in America. Children growing up without fathers, black men not stepping up and taking responsibility, choosing instead to duck, dodge and dive from supporting the children they helped to create. It's a known fact that blacks make up a good percentage of those living in poverty.

And because black men are more likely to be seen as a criminal, they are scrutinized even more closely. Everything about them--their appearance, attitude, etc--is examined for anything that will confirm the stereotypical belief that he is a criminal at heart. So most black people will strive to go against all stereotypes, but there is always someone who reinforces them through their behavior.

For white people, if one murders, robs, rapes or whatever, they are considered to be "different," or an exception. In other words, he's in a class by himself. However, with black people, if one steals, they all steal. If one black man has six children with six different women, they all have several children with different women. If one sells or does drugs, they all do it. If a black woman has several children by several fathers or has several children and is on welfare and foodstamps, then all black women are like that. In other words, one represents the race as a whole. If a black person stole from a store last week and I go in to shop, they will believe I steal too and I will followed around and every black person knows what I'm talking about; I'm sure they've been followed at some point while shopping.

But there are a lot of ignorant people out there and it's not necessarily about racism; a lot of times, it's just a case of making a judgment call based on their reality. There is no one universal reality; everyone has different experiences and that's not something you can hold against them. I have a supervisor I am really cool with and I know he is a racist. Why do I have lunch with him? Because I always know where he stands with me. He doesn't disrespect me, but he told me once he thinks there is something wrong with black people. I just say okay, fine, if that's how you feel and go on about my business. I think there is something going on with black people myself, but I also wonder what the hell is up with white people. Being on the fence as I am, I've seen different things from either side, both good and bad. I've had white patients who would never associate with blacks, yet insist on a black caregiver or nurse. I have one black friend who is so bitter he refuses to even talk to white people, yet when he crashed his car and was bleeding and one came to his aid, he refused the help and nearly died. My father's friends didn't like that he married my mother and had me, but they accepted it so as not to lose my father's friendship.

Stereotypes have abounded since the dawn of time. Propaganda mills have always worked to spread negative stereotypes about nonwhites and women and positive stereotypes about whites and men. You rarely ever hear anything negative about whites, but you rarely hear positive stereotypes about black people. I wonder why that is?

My mother feared my father would raise me to be white--in mentality, of course--and insisted that I know about my black roots. My father didn't raise me any different than he raised my half-sisters, two of whom are married to black men. They never saw me as different or bad, just an annoying little sister who made a mess of their makeup or destroyed their house on visits. But like I said before, everyone has their own reality; it's not wrong or bad...just different.
Bresue

Stereotyping has been around forever and will continue if we as a nation refuse to educate ourselves about our differences. I agree that there are some loud mouth black women and some black men who have babies by different women. I also know some loud mouth hispanics who will cuss you out in a language you cant understand. As far as white men and women, the white women who date or have babies by black men appear to be the dumbest women around and act like doormats when it comes to them being treated with any type of respect from black men. Are all white women that dumb....no! I also know white men who have turned their backs on children they have fathered emotionally and physically. Are all white men like that...no. I think the differences i refer to is how you were raised and what kind of family unit you grew up in. If you were raised to respect others along with respecting yourself, then you wouldnt be in public acting out. If i go out and see someone belongings at that table then im not going to sit there. And if im at an event where the president is speaking and i dont like him or agree with his policy, im not going to throw a book nor a shoe at him. I was raised better than that.
Brandi Taylor

Dear White Chocolate,
To clarify some of your concerns, I do feel that it is harder to be a black women than it is to be a white woman. Because I am a black woman, I often get judged on how I should act, or how I should walk and talk. Not only do I get stereotyped by other races, but I also get stereotyped by other black people. But in keeping it real as it is true for me to do so at all times, yes there are some of us out there that are exactly like the stereotypes that are portrayed in the media. However, I do not let what someone else expects from me stop me from being who I am. I want you to know that the world is much larger than it may seem in NC, and that I appreciate that you addressed your concerns rather than assumed what it means to be black in America! See, we as a people used to be a hard working, and close knit society. The majority of our past remains true in some black people, but there also the "40 acres and a mule" mentality that allows some black people to feel that they are entitled to go and do what ever it is that they want to on someone else's expense! Racism is something that will never die, as long as people continue to look different, then there will always be a reason for someone else to hate them. And that for the day is Real Talk!
Brandi Taylor

I agree, I am just one black woman, I cannot speak for other black women. I have also been in situations where I'm at the bar and I see a white woman with her black boyfriend, and she gives me the stink eye for whatever reason because I'm a friendly person, and I will speak to everyone (race doesn't apply when I'm being courteous!) And as far as working harder, I'm a recent college graduate, I graduated Cum lade, yet I'm still looking for a job, I wonder why that is...(joking!)
http://primarythoughts.net Melanie

I agree with your interpretation.

"If" she was attempting to be disingenuous in an attempt to perpetuate these stereotypes, then she just proved her point hands down.
Brandi Taylor

I agree! "Low class" has nothing to do with the amount of money that you make per year. It has nothing to do with the color of your skin, where you live, and how much education that you have. I do not know where the notion came from that it'd cool to be loud, rude, bitchy, a whore, and why it is mostly associated with black people. I could go there and say that is has something to do with the way people were raised, but in most cases that ain't true either. Hell, you can't really blame it entirely on hip-hop media, the way people act is a choice and not a circumstance, and yes white chocolate does need to get a new crew if that is what she is mostly experiencing! I'm not knocking anyone for being who they are, but one thing that I do know is that this is just a label, and if you do not fit under it, then don't worry about trying to prove to others that you are not a typical black person! Stay true to who you are and you will be alright!
http://primarythoughts.net Melanie

Hmm... this is another one of those topics... too many thoughts.

There's a difference between stereotypes based on ethnicity and socio-economic stereotypes. Many of the stereotypes that are typically designated as a black stereotypes have nothing to do with ethnicity or race.

I interact with the suburban community and the urban community on a daily basis due to where I live, where my children go to school and where I work. In my opinion, the differences are more socio-economic, than anything else. The two are like double cousins though, don't get me wrong. Economic disparity exists because it was built on the foundation of racism in America.

My opinion on the ABW stereotype that the writer questions... it's socio-economic. Anger (period) is more prevalent in the urban community because of the basic struggle to create a comfortable existence. The struggle to manage a household under financial hardship is enormous, beyond basic human need there are the effects of stress that permeate through the relationships... which leads us to the black man w/numerous baby mommas.

I think everyone is keenly aware of the stresses that financial hardship can put on relationships. It shouldn't surprise anyone that those in this position in life struggle with maintaining healthy relationships.

And in her example, there is no history given. Who is to say... he wasn't a teen parent of the first two. Maybe, he hadn't been taught the importance of protection and got two girls pregnant. Lesson learned. Then years past and the condom broke. Baby number three. MAYBE? He has a huge slong and all the condoms broke. Hell, who knows. Lol... is that another stereotype? Sorry..

Anyway, there isn't enough info to throw him into the black man w/numerous baby mommas stereotype.
Womanofyr

Hmmm, Just imagine,

One white chick, approaching six black women
and saying get the f up.

That is not realistic at all. And she did not pay for the seat, that fits six people. Her whiteness wasn't gonna make them move. lol
http://spinsterscompass.wordpress.com Spinster

In my current location, EVERYONE has it hard. That does NOT, however, dismiss the effects of race. It's just that right about now, everyone is worried about how to pay bills and put food on the table, especially with the heavy budget cuts coming down the pipe.
The Duchess

Hermes is that type of brand.. They don't give away their bags for free to ANYBODY no matter WHO they are so... The store was closed & I don't see anything wrong with them not reopening the store for her. Who does Harpo think she is anyway? LMAO
The Duchess

hmmmm.. One black chick telling six black chicks to get up.. I see that scenario playing out WAY more than the white chick on black chicks scenario..
Webb

JUST BEING HONEST

I feel like a fairly large amount of young black people believe that being black is an ATTITUDE - rather than a delicate gift.
QuoteMan

In all that I do, I’ve never felt compelled to work twice as hard as a white person, but rather give it my all. Because today, I truly believe that it’s one’s performance not the color of his skin that is a barrier to his/her success.

Now, I bristle at the notion that black folks must carry themselves in a manner that appeases to white folks. Bullshit! Fact of the matter is black folks and white folks are different in many ways. IMO it’s more so about tolerance than acceptance, if you carry yourself in a manner respected by society at large (not just white folks), you will be embraced by all, if not most. This affords us the opportunity to be ourselves and possibly enlightening those who needs to enlightened (about us).

The writer may very well have written this in good faith but she does come across as very naïve. A Person with a good heart but has never been around black folks, and when she dated one and was exposed to quite a few of our short-comings, she felt the need to bring it to our attention.

So, in part I agree with hellifiknow and Southern Poise. Thanks but no thanks.

Much like Bill O’Reilly was feigned shock when he went to Harlem and “There wasn't one person in Sylvia's restaurant who was screaming, motherfucker I want more iced tea," smh
MissMe83

Angry black woman stereotype.....check!! LOL (oh my, I can only imagine the response...lol)
journeytowifey

as a gal with homies of all nationalities, i find myself, in the middle of such issues.
had a event a few weeks ago, all my non-black friends bought there tickets, my black homies: git mine too (cmon)
lets not even address, restaurant bills......huge difference in cultures
not sure what it is
Nona Sequitur

Of course people of color (particularly black folks) have it harder in this country. It's an inevitable consequence of being a minority having to negotiate the majority culture. Whites have the luxury of being individuals. They don't feel like the behavior of Paris Hilton or Jeffrey Dahmer is a negative reflection on them as white people. They barely have to think about what it even means to be "white."

With black folks, it's different. We've been told in one way or another for centuries that we're less than, that we're deficient, that we're all (insert stereotype here). So of course many of us are going to feel that the ignorant actions of some black people reflect poorly on us, or like we're repping for the entire race. And yes, we do have to work twice as hard to succeed. (The day that America elects a black Sarah Palin or Bush as president is the day that we'll have truly become a "post racial" society).

Personally, I do feel like the black representative at times. Especially, when I'm the only one in certain settings. But I'm noticing as I get older, I've started to care less and less...
http://mizChartreuse.com mizChartreuse

Ah, jeez. Some of the black folk here are too apologist and too ready and eager to call a white girl on some shit. I'm all for calling out white folk, but people shouldn't forgwt about where the term "hoodrat" comes from, I'm sorry. Black folk suck at tipping, spread their seed, and being a babymama is acceptable/encouraged. Face it, those are major stereotypes for good reason so no need to play devil's advocate! White people have their dumb ignorant shit as well, so I'm not letting them off the hook, but dude. These stories/perceptions we have about race exist for good reason. Obviously.
http://www.daseekah.com daseekah

Simple answer....YES
R.e.D

This was another thought- provoking piece. The problem is there is too much to say, too many angles to view this from and it can come off as being contradictory-but it is just reality.

Some black folks are classless, vulgar and uncouth. The ones that curse their kids out in public in the name of discipline. The ones that live off welfare-not for just a season - but for life. The ones that ask me to fill out their disability paperwork, when in reality they are FULLY capable of perfuming job duties. These are the ones that are mostly portrayed in the media. But when I lived in BK, I saw this play out many times on the train. And I was simply embarrassed by the behavior and language.

Other blacks are elitist, you've all met them, the ones with 3-4 degrees and an Ivy league education, that grew up relatively wealthy and attended private school. They only eat sushi-with the chopsticks- and act like they don't know what fried chicken is. The ones with a sense of entitlement. These ones bother the hell out of me just as much as the ghetto ones do.

These are two extremes and I hope that most of us fall somewhere in between. And let me state, class has absolutely nothing to do with money. Your parent/s either raised you right or they didn't, so you don't know how to conduct yourself in the real world. It all stems from parenting.
R.e.D

I meant 'performing'
http://www.AConleyCreation.com karmagini

She's racist yet dated a black man?! I don't understand your rationale at all that this writer is racist. I think she expressed her concerns eloquently and diplomatically. It's not always easy for us (whites) to express our concerns, perceptions, or questions about stereotypes, and to me, I think she did this well.

Funny how some people who claim racism in another are making a generalization themselves about that person (re: "You did say you live in the South, right? That kind of ignorance went out with Troop jackets and Walkmans.))
Womanofyr

@Duchess.. I'm not sure which point you are making. Anyway, this white chick is corresponding women not getting up (non-obedience) with the race stereotyping.

I think she makes excuses to through race negatives at black folk. Negative begets negative. Once the women said no, one should walk away if you not tough enough to handle the response to continued demanding/ordering of strangers.
Womanofyr

I do find it dangerous territory to validate the stereotyping or to blame black folk for it.

If we do blame ourselves, then white people are inherently ignorant (like an infant) and we are responsible for molding their thinking. We just can't be responsible for whites in that way.

Also, we don't do this type of thing (in a serious way) to the whites, when we see criminal or bad behaviors from them.
Womanofyr

I thought this was insightful. These women have hardships.

Stress and high blood pressure can make a woman act like that. Plus, there is possible depression, or worst. There is a reason for people's behaviors. And when it's totally excessive, that is a symptom of something maybe.

Also, we can keep in mind that slave owners called us lazy, even though we did all the work. So people who provoke anger, could think their victims should just take the victimizing; the angry woman may have just suffered something, or anticipate it again. So therefore, the stereotyping can not be blamed on us.
God’s Gift

PUH-LEASE!!!

Black people stereotype white people too!
http://strokeofprose.com Kaye Michele

Sigh...

Ans, one of these days...people who comment are going to carefully read your post...and then answer the questions in accordance with the post.

*hums "Someday We'll All Be Free*

I'm actually glad that you ran this particular letter. Sounds like a person who is genuinely interested in how things operate in race relations. And, for the record, she does it in a well thought out manner. Good deal.

Of course, we as a people have to work twice as hard to get half as far. However...too many of us are so busy attacking each other that we miss the actual people that require the attacking. Not to mention, we are our own worse enemy. How many of us can say that we don't have our own prejudices when it comes to certain things? Many of us say, "well I have a right to be mad because..." Why? Be mad for WHAT? Live your life fully and abundantly, and when you encounter ignorance (as we are all sure to at some point), handle it in a dignified manner and keep it moving. Do what you have to do and combat ignorance and prejudice by NOT FEEDING INTO IT. It's like pouring kerosene on a match on a dry plain of grass. And if you want to do more...organize, work within your community, and do more. It's really that simple.

#thatisall
Destiny

I come from Canada. The land of the true North. Despite the fact that I was born and raised in this country, it is very rare that you will see my race as part of the legitimate fabric of this country. Canada, the U.S. and other formerly colonized countries are pretty much the same, in which they hold a "tolerant" view of the African Diaspora. The operative word is "tolerant". It doesn't mean that mainstream has to be accepting, caring, thoughtful, respectful, accountible, accommodating, hospitable, inclusive --ONLY tolerant! Keep this in mind when you are walking down the street, when you are working on the job, when you are driving your car, developing your family, or even grocery shopping.

I have an uncanny sense of spotting BS. And the original post is not so different then the "Like, I have black friends therefore I am not a bigot..." case. This person dates black men (nothing wrong with that) - however I have seen over and over where most white women feel they should be automatically included among black, as they have tolerated us for so long. How sweet. I used to work in a non-profit organization where I was the only black woman there. The remaining were white, latina (Italians are included in this category), and asian. They all dated black men and loved to talk about their genitals. I have a son. I am a mother. I was concerned and disgusted! I was very quiet, the conversation turned to black women and their attitudes; and how they hate women who take their men. Talk about using stereotypes for convenience. Like I said, it is observed that they only tolerate - nothing more nothing less.

I have seen that when you stand up for yourself, you are considered uppity. I have seen that when you want better expectations for your child you are considered domineering. If you dress well and speak "proper" English, you are considered an eggplant. If you get the best results because of your blood, sweat, and tears - you are considered "lucky" and/or incompetent depending on how envious your opposition is. If you have the best qualifications, I have seen that you may still get passed over by your counterpart who only has a GED. If you display discontent, or are quiet - they get intimidated claiming you are not a team-player. That it is "hard" to approach you - even though you greeted them in the morning and the morning before that and before that. You could have 10, 20, 30 years of excellent service, and all it takes is one envious person, maladjusted client to say something negative without substance - and it is automatically believed. All of a sudden you have to defend your integrity, your years of work. And don't get me started about recognition, muchless exclusion and lack of respect issue.

So a group of people went and took her spot. In a club. And???? People take my spot and the spot of my child all the time. It is a damn fight EVERY DAY to keep what we have!!! It is a damn shame to have to teach your child how to arm themselves with knowledge, because there are people raised by wolves who will try to stop him in becoming the best he can be. And black people, you know I do not need to explain myself more on this issue!

Racism will be here until the people who do it change their ways. As I do not weild such power I am doing and teaching my family to work with the resources we have, block negativity as much as possible, remember you have choices, love youreself and know your history, and find a partner with the most pure of heart (regardless of their race).
Destiny

To continue...when asked the question:

Do you agree that Black people have to hold themselves to a higher standard in an attempt to end these stereotypes?

I recommend that you look at it like a vicious cycle. It occurs when the smart, overachieving black person does not receive respect and recognition that they do in a variety of facets in society. I.e: As when a white colleague who only obtained 4 appts for business gets monetary recognition, but the black person is overlooked when they consistently bring in 8-10 appts for business. Or, get past over for a promotion. Or denied a position because they are "over qualified". Or have the highest workload, compared to their counterparts and still be expected to meet the same deadlines. Or I can go on with more examples - keeping in mind that the pay does not reflect the quality nor quantity of the work.

In most cases, black people fear voicing their concerns due to more negative preceptions leading to a poisoned, or worse concerns are ridiculed and minimized, or worse fear of getting fired with no recommendation after you have worked so hard and input of hard work was a premium quality.

Since there are very few who are able to realize the complications with such distress, some individuals turn on themselves thinking if they were the best of the best (even at the expense of losing themselves) then they could escape the chains of stereotypes. There are very few people who know the depth of pain and challenges that black people go thru just to survive, much less live. VERY FEW.
irishmami8

Whoa. I seriously resent being called a racist here. I'm sorry that I'm late commenting here. Things have been kind of busy, and I'm just now reading the blog. The topic for this e-mail actually came from my ex-boyfriend. We had a conversation about stereotypes a while back. He was complaining about those who he felt set back Black people by giving whites more reason to stereotype them, such as using the N-word. And then I had these experiences.

I was at a Latin club when the incidence with the girls happened. My feeling is that they had no more business being there than I did. None of us were Latina. Also, if it was a black club, why should they be more entitled than me because of skin color? It's never right to exclude people. I've had the same situation happen with other African-American women and they apologized profusely and started to get up. I told them, no, stay. I only need one chair. Then we had a great time hanging out.

I get that asking these questions could lead to me being labeled ignorant, and it's true. I'm more than a little ignorant. Otherwise, I wouldn't have asked for another opinion. I'm sorry that I'm not that eloquent and don't get my point across as well. I'm not a writer and don't claim to be. I read this blog because I like to get other people's perspectives. I won't ever get being black or Latino or any other minority. But I don't want to stay an ignorant, sheltered white girl.

I'm sorry if I offended anyone. I guess I didn't take too much time getting my thoughts across, much as I'm probably doing now. I just write what I'm thinking at the time and do the best I can getting my feelings across. I wrote this months ago and had forgotten all about it.

My point was with as many nice, friendly, successful Black people who try to do the right thing as I know, I know that not everyone is this way. I just don't understand why some would, even unknowingly, perpetuate these stereotypes. Again, I'm sorry if I come across as a racist. I won't sit here and say that I have no prejudices. I think very few of us are completely without them. I'm just trying to educate myself more so that those that I do have, I can overcome.

And to the writer who asked how I can date a black man when I'm racist, I've always been more attracted to darker men, both Latino and black. I used to only date white guys because I didn't have much exposure to interracial relationships and used to wonder when growing up if it was just something not done. As I grew up though and saw more of the world, I realized that it was okay to date those that I was attracted to, regardless of race, and that I was doing myself a disservice by trying to be something I'm not.

Back to the subject at hand, I would never be hostile to anyone, so I expect the same from them. Also, I do not agree with having children out of wedlock with multiple people, regardless of race. There are too many birth control options. I get that accidents happen, but three seems like a pattern of poor choices. I'm being judgemental I know. People can learn from their mistakes. If there's one thing I've learned from my friends, it's hard enough being a minority without giving people a reason to stereotype you.

Thanks, Ans, for answering my questions without judging me. I'm glad that you understood that I was just trying to understand, so I can better myself. And sorry for my novel.
irishmami8

My issue was not that they took my spot. My issue was that they were rude to me when I was more than polite. I went up to them and said excuse me, but this is my table and my things are here. And they said, so, your name's not on it. I said that I had gotten there early and put my things there and had only gotten up to dance for a minute and asked if they could move to the table next to it since it was empty. I could have gotten up and moved, but I've learned to stand up for myself. I didn't think that I was in the wrong. I'm sorry that people are rude to you. I don't think I deserve a prize or anything for dating black guys. I still love that man, for who he is, not his skin color. I don't just tolerate anyone. I have both black and Latino friends, and I like them because they're fun and we have a lot in common. I like hearing their experiences and learning from them. Some have accused me of trying to be black or Latino, but I'm proud of my heritage. I'm happy to be white because it's who I am. But I can't live my life hanging out with nothing but middle-class white people. We've got so much variety here, that I want to experience it. I want to surround myself with others of many different backgrounds, so I don't have to live in a bubble. I know that I don't get it. Is it wrong for me to want to try? Can you and the other readers help me to understand your perspectives? I honestly just want to learn. I'm not trying to offend anyone, but the only way I know how to learn is by asking questions. If I step out of line, please just tell me. It's not on purpose, it's just naivete (I think that's how you spell it). I won't know unless someone tells me.
irishmami8

Thanks for trying to get me. I'm really upset that I caused so many people to be mad at me. I didn't mean anything by it. I was just trying to educate myself. I'm glad that you didn't think my letter was thrown together. But I think that I should've spent a little more time on it and tried to make it better. I'm just not the best writer, not unless it's a term paper. It makes me feel better to know that there are others who are okay with trying to help those of us that want to understand do so. Thanks again. I just hate being thought of as a racist. It hurts. I'm not trying to be. The only thing I think I'm guilty of is a little ignorance. I don't want to be ignorant, so I'm trying to fix it. However, I think that none of us will ever get what it's like to be anyone else. But we still have an obligation to try. Well, gotta go to work now. Have a great day!
Candace

Really irishmami8 as much as I love NWSO's blog I have to say; If you want to educate yourself, read. If you want to understand people try very hard to put yourself in their shoes and yes read, I mean read books. I am sorry but it's just a waste of time trying to understand why some black people do not act accordingly standards when you are overlooking, history, slavery, violence, poverty,discrimination,social mobility factors, equality in education and chances, family cell destruction.... but still you expect them (living stereotypes) to understand what is better questionned and understood while not in their position. Well from where we are it's a very easy thing to say.
It's cute and all but read, history, sociology, actuality...and I assure you everything even if not perfect will make perfect sense.
The world is full of mean people, those who happen to be black won't stop just to invalide your prejudices.
The question is not why some black people are not helping black people's image. The question should really be why should black people have an image. Why should caucasian live their own individual life while every black individual has to carry the weight of the whole melanine group reputation (I have an issue with the race/minority words obviously..besides human race that is). It's all just silly. Does evey chinese you meet define chinese in general for you? I mean HALF OF HUMANITY?
I think going deeper into those issues will answer questions regarding the black community social issues more than just why some girls in a bar were mean to you.